Electrical mystery - I lost shore power while installing a new stereo - 1986 C34

Dave Anderson · September 11, 2011, 06:00:41 PM

I installed a new stereo and everything worked fine until the bottom of the stereo touched the electrical panel cover. I now have no shore power. I do have 12 volt power and if I turn on the Freedom 10 inverter, I have power to my AC outlets. I have checked the 30 amp breaker (it never tripped and it does have continuity when pressed in). I also removed the electrical panel to look for potential issues - seeing nothing unusual. There was no spark, sound or smell when the stereo touched the panel. I do not have GFI outlets. When I connect to shore power two lights on the electrical panel are lit showing normal polarity. The green AC power light on the panel does not light, and also the remote panel for the Freedom charger/inverter does not register AC as being connected. I checked the bus fuse between the batteries and the Freedom charger and find that that is good. I am ready to find someone that is good with boat electrical systems as I suspect this may be a difficult issue to resolve in a forum - but what the heck. Any one have a great idea of where to look next? Thanks!

Ralph Masters · September 11, 2011, 08:10:12 PM

What band were you playing?? AC/DC

Ralph

Stu Jackson · September 11, 2011, 08:14:17 PM

Any one have a great idea of where to look next?

Between the shorepower inlet and the inverter connection.

Since the inverter is still working, and you don't show shorepower, that's where it has to be.

Check in the incoming shorepower wiring. Loose connection, perhaps on the bus bar/terminal strips on the hull behind the panel.

I installed our A.C. connection remote from behind the panel.

Ken Juul · September 12, 2011, 04:45:04 AM

I don't think the stereo touching the panel is anything more than a coincidence. Start at the shore power plug. Are you really getting 120Vac from the dock? If yes, is that 120 Vac getting to the switch on electrical panel? If either are no, figure out why.

sselinger · September 12, 2011, 05:09:16 AM

Did you check your ground fault detector?? Remember all the plugs, down stream from unit, are covered.

Dave Anderson · September 12, 2011, 06:03:09 AM

Quote from: sselinger on September 12, 2011, 05:09:16 AM
Did you check your ground fault detector?? Remember all the plugs, down stream from unit, are covered.

I don't think my 1986 C34 has GFI protection. At least none of the outlets are GFI outlets. Thanks for the suggestions though.

Dave Anderson · September 12, 2011, 06:09:14 AM

Quote from: Ken Juul on September 12, 2011, 04:45:04 AM
I don't think the stereo touching the panel is anything more than a coincidence. Start at the shore power plug. Are you really getting 120Vac from the dock? If yes, is that 120 Vac getting to the switch on electrical panel? If either are no, figure out why.

The power at the shore plug shows 120. The only power that I can detect at the panel is that there are a couple of lights that indicate "normal polarity" that light up. I was not able to detect power coming into the 30 amp breaker and therefore it must be that power is stopped somewhere on its way to the inverter or from the inverter to the panel. Since I am new to the boat I am not sure exactly how the power is routed - but from what Stu suggested, it must go the the inverter first. Thanks for your help - I will be back at it this coming week-end and implement the help I am receiving on the forum.

Dave Anderson · September 12, 2011, 06:17:54 AM

Quote from: Stu Jackson on September 11, 2011, 08:14:17 PM
Any one have a great idea of where to look next?

Between the shorepower inlet and the inverter connection.

That sounds like a good plan Stu. The inverter is installed in a very inaccessible area of the v-berth. I was able to get a visual inspection of it, but I did not try to verify how it was connected to AC. This will be my project for this week-end. It is quite difficult to see how the wiring actually gets back to the inverter, but from your post - it appears that the AC goes from shore power inlet to the inverter and then back to the panel. Thanks again.

Dave Anderson · September 12, 2011, 06:22:28 AM

Quote from: SD Diver on September 11, 2011, 08:10:12 PM
What band were you playing?? AC/DC

Ralph

I think it was a new band called "Loose Connections".

noworries · September 12, 2011, 08:07:28 AM

Quote from: Stu Jackson on September 11, 2011, 08:14:17 PM
Any one have a great idea of where to look next?

Between the shorepower inlet and the inverter connection.

Since the inverter is still working, and you don't show shorepower, that's where it has to be.

Check in the incoming shorepower wiring. Loose connection, perhaps on the bus bar/terminal strips on the hull behind the panel.

I installed our A.C. connection remote from behind the panel.

Is this some kind of backwards inverter that converts AC to DC?
I think if you only have power if you turn the inverter on, that doesn't tell you anything new. It says the inverter is working converting your DC to AC?

Stu Jackson · September 12, 2011, 08:07:58 AM

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products-support/document-downloads/discontinued-products/discontinued-products-inverter-chargers.aspx

You should be able to find the installation manual for your Freedom unit here, if you don't have one already. They include wiring diagrams.

The Freedom Marine Series is different than the Freedom 20 series manual. You may have the older unit, so read both to see which unit you have. Only the "Marine" manuals have wiring diagrams. The older manual used to have some wiring diagrams and there was a separate book published and included with the units that had about 12 different ones. They don't appear with this material on the Xantrex website.

If you need more help, pm me and I can get you a copy of my Freedom 15 manual from 1998.

Stu Jackson · September 12, 2011, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: noworries on September 12, 2011, 08:07:28 AM

Is this some kind of backwards inverter that converts AC to DC?

It is a Freedom unit which combines an inverter and a charger in ONE unit with an internal automatic transfer switch.

There are a number of different wiring diagrams available for installation. The simplest and most straightforward and applicable for our "simple" boat electrical systems, is to have the A.C. power wired first to the Freedom I/C, then back to the electrical panel main A.C. breaker. The logic is simple: A.C. in and inverter off: A.C. power passes through the I/C and operates normally; A.C. shorepower not available? -- turn inverter on and A.C. power comes from the inverter to the main A.C. breaker. Simply think of shorepower OR the inverter as the SOURCE of A.C. power TO the main A.C. breaker. The internal transfer switch precludes both from being present at the same time.

Quote from: noworries on September 12, 2011, 08:07:28 AMI think if you only have power if you turn the inverter on, that doesn't tell you anything new. It says the inverter is working converting your DC to AC?

Sure it does. It means the A.C. isn't getting to the I/C, or that the transfer switch has failed. I'd try to trace the first of those first.

Ken Juul · September 12, 2011, 08:41:50 AM

Knowing nothing about Freedom inverters I did a quick scan of the owners manuals. If the inverter is installed per the instructions, all the electrical connections are held together by wire nuts. Could be as easy as a loose connection. Before you start tearing the boat apart, I suggest you check the wiring connections at the inverter, you may have to remove the cover to see them. Manual isn't very clear on that.

Stu Jackson · September 12, 2011, 08:44:42 AM

Ken, I recall two different sections of the manuals, one for home use, the other for marine. No wire nuts on my boat!

Dave Anderson · September 12, 2011, 09:03:18 AM

I just called Xantex customer support and they indicated that I should first check that AC power is getting to the I/C unit (which I expect it is). The next item they suggested is to check the two fuses inside of the unit. The tech expects that one or both of the fuses may be blown. He cautioned me to disconnect all power for a period of a couple of hours or so to allow stored energy to disapate prior to opening the unit. I should probably install some type of fuse ahead of the I/C while I am at it so a similar problem will be easier to fix in the future. Thanks for your help - I now have a good plan for fixing this issue!