Head to Holding Tank Hose Replacement

[sselinger]

I am going to replace the hose fron the head to the holding tank this spring, on my 1990 C34. Any hints from those who have done it. I do plan to use the "best" odor resistant hose.

[Peggie Hall]

If you're gonna replace one hose, replace 'em all.  Replacing just one only means you'll get go through all the aggravation of flushing out the system first, skinned knuckles etc again...and again maybe. This would also be an excellent time to relocate the tank vent from the stanchion to its own thru-hull.

Before you start, pump out the tank and THOROUGHLY rinse it out....Then run GALLONS of clean water through the system to rinse out the toilet and the hoses. That will make any spills clean water instead of nasty stuff.  Put disposable aluminum pans and/or garbage bags under connections to catch those spills.

Warming hoses with a heat gun or blow dryer makes 'em easier to remove from fittings. Also makes it a lot easier to put the new ONTO fittings...just be careful not to overheat the hose. Lubricate hose and fittings with dishwashing liquid or better yet, K-Y. Do not use any sealant or any grease. 

Never heat a hose to make it bend tighter than it wants bend willingly...use inline radius 90s and 45s as needed instead, available from SeaLand http://www.sealandtechnology.com/productpages.asp?pid=66  (scroll to the bottom of the page to see the drawings.

Trident 101/102 (identical except for color) http://www.tridentmarine.com/stage/sanitation.htm  is the best hose on the market today. It's a double walled rubber hose that's been on the market for more than 15 years without a single reported odor permeation failure...something that cannot be said about ANY other hose. It's also less expense that some others that aren't as good. Check out sailboatowners.com prices  http://shop.sailboatowners.com/division.htm?div=37

[Ken Juul]

You might as well replace all the hoses while your in there.  Hose to pump out, hose to macerator, vent line.  If you think one is permeated, the rest are probably too.  Smelly job, only want to do it once.  A hair dryer and some dish detergent will help get the hose over the barbed connectors.  Measure twice, cut once  

[noworries]

Hope you guys aren't still using blue/formaldehyde based chems in your head.  The purple/green/orange/natural ones work so much better.

[Ron Hill]

Steve : Definitely do as Ken and Peggy suggest - change them all at once.
 
I found the best way to get a clean cut is to use a band saw.  I also like to use pipe dope to help them slide on and added seal.  I'd also suggest double hose clamps. 

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Peggy,
Is the Shields 101/102 hose offered by WM equal to or the same as the Trident 101/102 hose? Also, WM has a Shields Poly X hose that is twice the price of the 101/102 hose. Any info about that.
Is it OK to reuse the Y-valve and vented loop if replacing all hoses or should they be replaced too.
Your familiar with the history of my old hoses that were plugged solid, well I replaced them with the cheaper Shields 148 hose and I'm already having odor problems so I can attest to doing it right the first time.

Thanks,
Mike

[Peggie Hall]

Is the Shields 101/102 hose offered by WM equal to or the same as the Trident 101/102 hose?

I have no idea

Also, WM has a Shields Poly X hose that is twice the price of the 101/102 hose. Any info about that.

It costs twice as much and although it has a "lifetime" (nothing lasts forever, so what does Shields consider a "lifetime"...as long as YOU own the boat?  I need to find out!)  warranty against odor permeation failure, it hasn't been on the market but a year or two..Trident 101/102 only a 5 yr warranty, but 15 year + failure free track record. Warranties are just writing...track records are proof. But I can't see spending twice as much for the same result, even if both had the same track record, much less for a gamble.

Is it OK to reuse the Y-valve and vented loop if replacing all hoses or should they be replaced too.

You only need to replace the hoses....You can re-use all the fittings.

Yup...it's always cheaper and easier to do it once.  But if it's any consolation, I had to learn that the hard way too.

[sselinger]

How does one disconnect the tank hose to pumpout fitting?  It seems very difficut to get to the clamps. Anyone had the experience and can offer suggections?

[Ken Juul]

I don't remembering it being that hard. The wood covers come off pretty easily after you find all the screws.  Had a tougher time getting the vent line on the stanchion.  Using a socket or nut driver usually works better than a screwdriver on the clamps.

[Indian Falls]

I'm in the process of doing my 90 right now.  It was never done before and sure does smell.

Make sure you get a nice cheap heat gun first, do not use a torch, a hair dryer is just too.. well it's for your hair.  The heat gun is for getting hoses off not just putting  them on.

If I were you, and I'm going to do this in a few days: I would carefully slit the hose on the deck fitting with a new sharp razor knife being careful to not cut into the brass fitting itself.  Lots of nice heat with a heat gun and pull down. 

I had to remove the upper and lower wood covers next to the nav station and the vented stanchion to get the vent line out.  I pulled in the new piece starting in the cabinet under the stanchion.  (anybody want to comment on the two fire hazards in the center of the pic?)

It's a wrestling match getting 3/4 Flex Pvc pipe up through there with the old rubber 1-1/2 in there too.
A bit of WD-40 here and there helped a lot.  I can eliminate the 3 fittings that made a 90 deg turn under the stanchion as a kink preventor.  PVC flex pipe won't kink, is dimensionally the same as schd 40 and can be used with pvc fittings for rigid (but I'm not).  It is almost the same as the stuff that has "odor control" additives mixed in when it's made.... but I only smelled "snake oil salesman" so I went for widely available and inexpensive.  Besides, I won't be around in 20 years to smell it when this stuff finally permeates. 

Replacing the ones running from the head to the antisiphon and the through hull were pretty easy with climing into the lazarrette being the toughest part. 

I tackle the big stuff this weekend after several fresh water pump outs and a shop vac lined inside with a trash bag running and ready on the cabin top with a long hose to slurp up any spillage or unexpected amounts of liquid remaining inside.  I'll feel bad for my neighbors if there's no breeze... 

Tip:  I use duct tape to instantly cover open hoses, fittings, pipes etc. as long as "stuff" is not running out.

I'm just using the Shields Heavy duty 1-1/2 sanitation hose which is reinforced pvc flex, was 22.80 for 10 feet, which I ordered with 50' of 1/2'' blue tracer for potable water at .88/ft, free shipping no tax from Jamestown Distributors.

I used 30' of 3/4" but that included the head sink too, at .80/foot from my local pool/spa store.
They had 2' of the 1" for the macerator to the blanked off through hull, for 1$/foot. 

The only thing I forgot to get is nose-plugs!

[Stu Jackson]

Dan,

The two little round things or the wire nuts?!?

[Ron Hill]

Guys : I relaced all my head hoses last year and used the Trident hoses.  Good hose!!
 
A heat gun will work, but it can overheat if you are not carefull.  I found the best is to get a deep pan (3") and have very hot water in it, then put the hose in the hot water for 10sec.  Hose will become plyable and slip on any connecting piece.

[Indian Falls]

Fire soon?

There is a 120v outlet that exists in the wood cover in the upper cabinet, it must be an add on by a PO. 
The wiring that goes or went to it is  cut  and reconnected with 3 wire nuts which are covered with tape.  The cut is 6-7 inches short of the outlet box.    ???whiskey tango foxtrot???    In my opinion wire nuts that are not inside an electrical box are a time-delay fire. 

The other Gem I found is below the added outlet, there is a 12v socket for 12 volt accessories.  Fed from the main battery switch to an inline 30 amp fuse with cheap white lamp cord. 

I love surprises!   Sorry the picture is not better it was one of the moments and all I had was cell ph camera.

[Ted Pounds]

Worse than that, wire nuts do not belong on a boat, period.     They should only be used in a house which doesn't move around and vibrate.  Use crimp connectors on a boat (or any other vehicle).

[Kyle Ewing]

I second the shop vac.  When replacing the host from the head to tank, I cut the tank side first (used a hack saw since my hose was wire reinforced) and used the vac to remove liquid in the low part of the hose.  I plugged the ends with paper towels when removing from the boat to prevent drips. 

I haven't replaced the hose to the pump-out yet (I was on the hard and couldn't pump the anti-freeze out).  After rinsing and pumping out thoroughly, I plan to cut the hose just above the tank and use the shop vac to completely drain the tank before removing the lower fitting.

It was easier for me to remove the tank fitting to remove the cut-off hose end.  The head side came off easy.

I used Trident 101 hose.