cutting hole in seat in head

[crieders]

I would like to cut a hole in the fiberglass under the seat in the head for the batteries that run the electric toilet. I hate cutting holes in things on the boat. Can someone school me in the right way to do this?

[Peggie Hall]

I would like to cut a hole in the fiberglass under the seat in the head for the batteries that run the electric toilet.

Every electric toilet I've ever heard of is designed to be on its own circuit connected to the boat's house battery....What toilet do you have--or are about to buy--that would need its own batteries and place to put them???? 

[Wayne]

I second Peggy's comments.  When I installed an electric head it wired to a switch on the electrical panel.
Your existing head (assuming it is like mine) is lag bolted to the platform on which your toilet sits.  This platform is part of the liner.  Under the fiberglass is about 3/4' of plywood, then another layer of fiberglass (in other works, a wood cored structure pretty much like a deck).  There is decent access (for a boat) through the wooden bottom of the hanging locker adjacent to the head.  My lag bolts didn't seem to have been set in place with any kind of sealant . . . which is surprising, and not so good.  The above information is important because your new head will not likely utilize the old holes, so you will need to re-drill (carefully!!!!!) and plug off your old holes.  If I might offer a related thought, consider moving the head outboard.  I cut two pieces of 1/2' starboard both to cover up the old holes and to raise the platform on which the toilet sits and move the attachment point outboard.  As my boat came from the factory, the rim of the toilet overhung the floor by a couple of inches; moving the toilet back really helped open up floor space in the head.  And by the way, I bought a Raritan Sea Era.  All in all the electric head was a great improvement.  And don't worry about the noise.  Yes it is loud, but it's not like someone pumping the manual head a dozen times is whisper quiet either. . .
Good luck!

[Ron Hill]

Cliff : If I were to install an electric head - I would route the wire from the main electrical panel (nav station) between the hull and the liner and come back out behind the head thru that liner.  

The reason I say "if I were to" is because with an electric head the users seldom pump enough water. Look at the stroke length of an electric vs a manual stroke and calculate the amount of water when you choose your electric head (pump).   A thought

[Peggie Hall]

Ron, the only electric toilets that a user can stroke are manual toilets to which a motor has been added to replace the pump handle.  To flush a REAL electric toilet, you just push a button...there is no dry bowl...OR bowel either. At least not on the toilet.

[dbpaul]

Pictures of how I did mine


https://picasaweb.google.com/1dbpaul/20110330#



paulj

[sailaway]

Cliff I cut a round hole under teak seat an put in a round beckson opening port that is water tight . I store lots of thing down there it is very large. Charlie

[Peggie Hall]

I'm still concerned about his upcoming toilet installation....make/model and how I can help him get it right the first time!

[crieders]

I have the head in there now....1 10yr old or so Crittendon with its own battery supply. I wanted to put those batteries under the seat in the head rather than leaving them under the head itself as they are now.

[Peggie Hall]

NOW  I know what you have--a VERY early version of the Wilcox-Crittenden Newport that was introduced in '98 or '99  but only lasted a very short time because it didn't work very well.  In fact, you're the only person I've ever met who has/had one!  Worse yet, Thetford-Norcold (who bought W-C several years after your toilet model came and went) discontinued the whole W-C product line at the end of '08, which isn't good news for the owners of ANY W-C toilet, but they don't even show a manual for that particular toilet on their website. So if/when you ever need parts, you're not gonna be able get 'em.  

All of which means this might be a good time to replace the toilet. It's definitely NOT a good idea to modify it by taking the battery pack out and rewiring it to install it remote from the toilet. I'm not sure that would be a good idea even the toilet were still in production...one BIG question I have is,  How will you keep the battery pack charged if you bury it in a locker? Hhowever I know the one person at T-N who was with W-C forever...and will email him. I'll get back to you again when I've heard back from him.

[crieders]

Peggy, thats exactly what I have and so far, so good. I just thought it would be neat to put the batteries under the seat, somewhat out of the way. They would still be easily accessible. I recall once talking to the fellow who was the "engineer" at W.C. He is with another company now and did urge me to buy his newly designed very expensive head. Not sure thats really a necessary option right now

[Peggie Hall]

Plan B: W-C continued to make the Newport until they discontinued the entire W-C line at the end of 2008...it's the battery pack version that was very short lived. I can't find a manual for that version, but I'm pretty sure I remember that the battery pack was never intended to be the primary power supply, but only as backup power source to conserve the house battery.  And I KNOW that batteries, even rechargeables, do have a lifespan...and yours are 10+ years old now.  So I'm thinking that if the toilet still works ok, the thing to do is run a new circuit for it and connect it to a battery same as all other toilets.  However...I'm gonna wait and see what JockO has to say before giving you any advice.

If you don't have any manual for it, you can download and print one for the "regular" Newport from here:

http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/PermanentToilets/Newport/tabid/577/Default.aspx

[Peggie Hall]

Had a reply from Thetford (Jock Allpress was THE "go to person" at W-C for decades)...here's what he has to say:

The Newport was available for a short while with 2 small batteries (the size of a house brick) that were intended so that you could use 1 and the other would be available as a spare - these batteries were made by Panasonic and were primarily for wheel chairs etc. they were intended to provide an electric toilet option for those yachts without batteries OR for those owners that wanted to conserve the ships battery capacity.

I see nothing wrong with having the batteries re-located, close by but I would agree that these batteries are most likely not really any good anymore.

To which I asked,

"1. How do you charge these batteries?

2. Can that model be "hard wired" to a circuit powered by the house
battery? Can the installation instructions for installing the the most
current version be followed to do that?"

And he replied:

we used to supply the batteries with a small charger much like you use for a cell phone with two female connectors to be attached to the males on the batteries

I see no reason that a new small battery could not be used here and hard wired in

J. Allpress (Jocko) - Thetford/Norcold
Marine Sales Engineer
401 225 4529


You now know everything that I know about this toilet, so if you still have questions, you might as well cut out the middle person (me) and contact him directly, either at the phone #  he included or by email: JAllpress@thetford.com.   But if you have any literature that includes an exploded drawing of how the battery is installed it, I'd REALLY appreciate your scanning and sending to me!

[Lance Jones]

Peggie,
While I'm not contemplating switching to an electric head (I'm sure my wife would think that every time she pumps the manual head), I sure do appreciate your insight that you share with us!

[crieders]

Thanks. The batteries are rechargeable and easily replaceable which I have done. No "need" to hard wire in but I still would like to get them out of the way.