Photos needed asap - head intake line into the head sink drain line

Peggie Hall · February 03, 2011, 01:33:45 PM

To anyone who's teed his head intake line into the head sink drain line:

I need high resolution photos showing exactly how you connected the head intake line to the head sink drain line...how far from the thru-hull, a good shot of your tee or y-fitting. Details and wide angles. I'm gonna use it to illustrate how to do it and I need 'em fairly quickly.

So hopefully at least one of y'all who's done this modification is a decent photographer who lives somewhere south of the snowdrift line and can get to your boat to take 'em over the weekend if you don't already have some photos (seems to me I've seen some, either here or on the sbo.com site).

High res photos are huge files, so when you have 'em, please email a heads up to me letting me know when you're gonna send so I can be ready for a long download.

Thanks much!

Peggie Hall · February 05, 2011, 06:45:47 PM

Nope... I'm asking for photos showing the head INTAKE line teed into the head sink drain line. It's the best way I know of to eliminate odor from sea water organisms trapped in the head intake and pump. If you don't know what I'm referring to, there's at least one thread that discusses it. If you can't find it, I'll be glad to explain it again.

Btw...by "macerate overboard" do you mean dump a tank???

Ralph Masters · February 06, 2011, 10:42:17 AM

On Ciao bella, hull 367, the intake for the toilet has a T on top for the shower pan pump discharge. The head sink has it's own through hull to port of that and to starboard near the engine is the intake for the the engine cooling water.
I'll try to get a shot of it today.

Ralph

Ralph Masters · February 13, 2011, 09:24:39 AM

This is the set up on Ciao Bella. The white hose goes to the toilet, the hose coming in from the top comes from the shower pump that is no longer used.

Ralph

Ralph Masters · February 13, 2011, 09:27:47 AM

After looking at the photo I thought I should explain the black hose too. That is the fuel return hose back to the fuel tank. I had not gotten the tank installed at that time so it was just laying there. It is now hooked to the tank and out of the way. If you need I can retake the photo and send again without the fuel return line.

Ralph

Stu Jackson · February 13, 2011, 12:41:40 PM

Ralph, if I understand your photo, the head and shower sump are tied together, with the head sink on its own separate thru hull.

My pictures on an earlier post (I'll find it later - see my next post below) switched that so the head sink ties into the head input, and the shower sump is on the old sink thru hull.

Right?

Ron Hill · February 13, 2011, 02:30:53 PM

Peggy : On the last flush before leaving the boat sit, I flush (thru the INTAKE line to the bowl and out the bowl) using fresh water. When I evacuate the fresh water from the bowl and all of the salt water smells don't get a chance to "grow" in any of the head lines.

I've posted this method a number of times.

Stu Jackson · February 13, 2011, 08:06:52 PM

OK, kids, let's try this one more time

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.msg38216.html#msg38216

and

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5865.0.html

Putting water ONLY in the bowl (or bowel) only takes care of HALF of the problem, because it doesn't clear out the seawater (saltwater) in the line from the thru hull to the head.

That simple. Really.

Once we did the simple switchover and started using just a tad of Odorless we have had ZERO smells from the head and the vent.

Not so hard to do.

Peggie Hall · February 14, 2011, 07:10:53 AM

Quote from: Stu Jackson on February 13, 2011, 08:06:52 PM
OK, kids, let's try this one more time

Putting water ONLY in the bowl (or bowel) only takes care of HALF of the problem, because it doesn't clear out the seawater (saltwater) in the line from the thru hull to the head.

Anything just poured into the bowl really only rinses out the head discharge hose. It never gets into the intake like or the upper 2/3 of the pump or the channel in the rim of the bowl...it only goes through the bottom part of the pump and out the discharge.

However, I got a bit lost in descriptions that involve the shower sump. Using gray water ("uses" sink and shower water) for toilet flushing is a bad idea...'cuz gray water is full of soap scum, body oils, dirt, etc that aren't good for the toilet pump and bacteria that can get just as smelly as sea water in hot weather. Only CLEAN water should go through a toilet.

I think I have all the photos I need now...thanks to all who emailed 'em to me. The photos that provide the best "how to do this" views will be added to the instructions for this in my files and the revised edition of my book....properly credited, used with permission of course.

Ralph Masters · February 14, 2011, 08:04:00 AM

Ron and Stu,
Your explanation of how your hoses are connected are great. I will change my hoses around and before leaving the boat Sunday night close the through hull intake and flush the toilet via the head sink using fresh water.
As mentioned I do want to run the shower pump suction hose into the bilge for emergency use. Right now it is plugged and serves no purpose.

Peggie,
To your question, yes the sink currently goes to it's on through hull to port of the toilet intake through hull. There are a total of three through hulls in that space. Starting inboard is the engine cooling water, then the toilet intake and then farthest to port is the sink drain.
And placing the sink drain with the toilet intake as Ron and Stu mentioned makes perfect sense to me

Thank you to all who have added their own bits here. This is what this forum is really all about, boaters helping boaters.

Ralph
Ciao Bella

scotty · February 14, 2011, 11:34:46 AM

Thanks. After reading this thread, I realize that it would be a good modification for me also. I'm a little slow, so it took a while. That's another good reason for lots of posts that review, question, and look at projects form different perspectives. With all the good ideas that I get (and then forget about!), I think I'm going to make a list of the projects that come through this message board.

Ron Hill · February 14, 2011, 06:02:37 PM

Guys and Peggy : Stu and I agree on flushing the intake raw water line, bowl and exhaust lines all with fresh water. We do however, disagree on how to do it!!

Stu does it by "T"ing into the head sink drain and changing the factory plumbing.

I do it by using the original factory installed plumbing. Close the center thru hull (which has the shower drain and head intake on the same thru hull). Switch the head lever to "wet" bowl. Pour fresh water (or anti freeze if you are winterizing) into the shower sump with the shower pump ON. The water will go in the shower sump, up thru the shower antisyphon valve and try to go out the thru hull - but it's closed. So the water flows in to the head intake line to the bowl. When the bowl is filled, stop pouring and shut off the shower pump. Flip the head lever to "dry" bowl and pump out the water.
No change to the factory plumbing in the C34 MK I. a thought

Peggie Hall · February 14, 2011, 06:45:12 PM

No...that does NOT work, Ron. Nothing that's poured into the bowl can do more than go out the bottom 1/3 of the pump and down the discharge line. So there's no way to totally rinse out the system without re-routing the head intake line to tee into the head sink drain line. Nor is there any way to pump antifreeze through the ENTIRE system without starting at the beginning of the head intake line.

Why are you so dead set against changing Catalina's factory plumbing? It's not ceiling in the Cistine Chapel! Several other boat builders including Tartan have used the same thru-hull for the sink drain and head intake because it works and it also saves 'em the cost of a thru-hull and seacock.

I'm almost 70 years old, Ron..which prob'ly makes me at least 10 years older than you are. Yet I'm not anywhere NEAR as resistant to new ideas as you are...so which one of us is the real "old fart" around here?

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · February 15, 2011, 08:31:40 AM

Hi Peggy,
I think you may be missing Ron's point. He is essentially doing the same thing as those people teeing off the sink, he's just doing it from the shower drain instead of the sink, and he's using fresh water, not gray water from the shower.
I think it's just a matter of personal choice whether you flush the lines out from the sink(probably easier) or from the shower drain.

Stu Jackson · February 15, 2011, 11:54:11 AM

Mike, here's one where I disagree. If you click on the links I gave you above, I was the guy who said using the shower sump would be just as effective. Turns out i was dead wrong, 'cuz what I got out of the shower sump was absolute filth. As in more than just a tad yucky. It's a 20 minute job to make the change. The head sink water is as clean as it can get. That's why I poste3d the "one more time, kids..." post.