Doyle UPS sail

[Roc]

Has anyone looked into this or better yet, have one to give feedback on it's performance.  It is very interesting that it has a very large usable wind range.  I wonder how real that actually is because when something can do many things, it ends up being not that great for any of them.  It's that old saying, if it's too good to be true, it isn't.  I hope this does work as well as it claims because it would be a great sail option.

http://www.doylesails.com/cruising/ups/index.html

Thanks!

[Ted Pounds]

I had an APC and it was a great sail.  It would work up to 60 degrees apparent wind.  And I think it was much better further off the wind than the UPS.  IMHO; YMMV 

[Wayne]

I had one on a previous boat (24') and liked it; bought one for my 34 and it was poorly made and pretty much sucked.  That being said, I just replaced it with a Hood version of the same sort of thing and love it.  Basically these things fall into the category of Code 0 spinnakers.  I also went with a continuous line furler on mine.  My boat is on SF Bay and the Hood loft recommended very strongly away from using nylon because it would likely stretch at the higher end of its wind range, so my sail is white with dark 'strings' running through it.  The cut is waaaaay better than the Doyle product, and it does hold its shape well.  A bit more expensive than nylon, but well worth it.  I sail upwind well; probably lose only about 5 degrees in pointing ability.  Downwind for sure jibing back and forth is the way to go, unless going directly downwind where wing and wing works really well--the clew floats outboard nicely and stays there through several degrees of wind vacillation (I don't have a whisker pole).  It is certainly true that a more traditional asymmetric will provide more horsepower downwind, but my marina is located directly downwind of where we always go, so I felt that the upwind ability was more important.  An important drawback of a Code 0 type sail is that the luff needs to be really tight; they actually are sailed pretty much like a genoa (they are sometimes called gennakers), so as the wind picks up the luff will sag off to leeward and they become less efficient upwind.

[Roc]

Wayne
Thanks for the info.  I did go to the Hood site, but couldn't find a sail that sounds comparable to the Doyle UPS.  They have a Hood MP-G (multipurpose Genoa), but the wind angle stated is 30-90 degrees.  The UPS goes down to a broad reach.  Was the sail you purchased for your C34 something special they did for you and is not an item in their normal product offering?

Thanks..

[Wayne]

Hi Roc.
I went back to my quote and I purchased a Code 0 from the Hood dealer in Sausalito (San Francisco).  I also went on line to the hood site and my Code 0 is a lot like the sail you mentioned--tight straight luff, etc.  I think my sail might have a fuller leech.  Interesting that their picture shows the sail flown on a spare jib halyard (aft of the foreguy and furled genoa).  I think my sail is a lot like the UPS but better built, and perhaps bigger in the 'shoulder' near the top of the sail.  Doyle originally provided me with a small single line furler for my UPS.  The thing was so awful (the furled sail would blow open at the head in any breeze more than about 14-15 knots) that I traded it for an ATN sock.  The sail itself was so poorly cut that it had a huge hook in the leech (a little hook seems to be normal for this type of sail), but this hook was so bad that the sail wasn't very useful tighter than about 60 degrees.  Roc, the little harken small boat furler was totally inappropriate for the sail (and the last time they checked Doyle still was recommending it on their web site).  The sail itself sucked.   I thought of selling it on ebay cheap, but I felt like I couldn't do that in good conscience--the sail is that bad.
I'm really happy with my Code 0 and its Selden continuous line furler.  I have led the line back to the cockpit with a 'double stack' of the harken stanchion blocks.
My bottom line opinion is that while the Doyle product had a better price it was money poorly spent (wasted!) in the long run.
I would like to stress again that I was looking for a light air sail with the best upwind performance because I need to go upwind a lot.  If you do not need so much upwind work then one of the more traditional asymmetrical would be a better choice for you--more area, more horsepower, better downwind.  And keeping the luff tight on my sail isn't easy.

[Wayne]

Roc, an important point that I forgot to mention . . . A Code 0 or gennaker type sail which requires a drum-tight luff also puts really substantial loads on wherever the tack is attatched to the boat.  I'm assuming that you are thinking of using the anchor roller as your tack anchor point.  Unless you alter your anchor roller I think that would be asking for serious problems.  On my boat I installed a funky bobstay--a long turnbuckle bolted to the underside of the anchor roller with the other end bolted to the bottom of the stem fitting.  This seems to do fine with braceing against the upward pull of the sail, I'm still observing to decide if I'm comfortable with the handling of lateral loads.  After market bow sprits are typically used with this type of sail.