Racing a C34 (feedback from other recreational racers?)

[drcam1]

I am looking at boats in this size range and the C34 is now at the top of the list.  While I am not that competitive (the kids like winning of course), I do enjoy participating in weekend races (buoy and longer) for the camaraderie it creates on your own boat and among the other local boaters.  Can I get some feedback on other C34 owners that race with their boats?  I am curious if they are competitive with their PHRF rating, if they sail in JAM races instead of messing with a spinnaker, what deck modifications needed to be done (extra winches, blocks, etc), or any other feedback.  I have looked around on the forum, but can't find information on this topic.

I would likely be sailing in the Sandusky Bay area of Lake Erie.


Thanks!

[Stu Jackson]

You're right, there isn't too much racing chatter on this board, compared to the technical fix-it material.  There are a few reasons for this.  

One, lotsa folks on our boats do not race.  That said, there is an extremely tight group of racers here in San Francisco.  Many of us have raced for years and literally each month, by having enough C34s to have our own start in regattas held by prestigious yacht clubs like the Golden Gate YC (read Americas Cup).  The results and standings can be found on the Fleet 1 page of this board under General Activities.  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/board,14.0.html  We even hold our own San Francisco Cup each September in those years when we don't hold the National regatta.

Second, sometimes someone asks a question like: "Please share your racing tips so I can make my boat go faster."  That's kinda like asking for insider trade secrets!

Lotsa folks start racing in Beer Can Races, laid back Friday night races from local clubs, who'll usually let you in without a big PHRF rating card.  

Do a search on PHRF and you'll find much information on the ratings our boats get around the country and that's the racing input that's been discussed here.  There are LOTS of discussions on that subject, LOTS.

Here in SF, 'cuz of our great turnouts (sometimes as many as 10 or more C34s in their own one design starts), we have our own ratings for our own class which include things like headsail size (max 130 but I've successfully raced with our 110), roller furling, type of prop, etc.  We don't have too many tall rigs here, and most are fin keel, with some wings.  All of these are standard headsail races based on our group's choice.  Many of these boats are vintage: #8, #108, #214, our #224, #707, many 1987 and 88 boats, as well as many newer Mark IIs, so we can all race together.  The camaraderie is great, and while we all play by the Rules, it's not cutthroat at all, very gentlemanly and friendly, compared to, say J105s!!!

Some of our skippers have been very successful in mixed design racing with spinnakers, too.

My boat is completely stock, no jib fairlead adjusters, no outside track.  Many of our skippers have more adjusters than you-know-who.  All we had for awhile was a whisker pole, and rarely used it recently.  Takes all kinds.

There is one adage that I subscribe to:  There's no different sail sets for racing vs. cruising.  Either you get the sails trimmed properly or not.

I've just looked at racing as very structured daysailing cruising!

[cmainprize]

My experience is the C34 sails close to it's rating.  We don't take racing to seriously but we have made lot's of upgrades to make sailing handling easier and improve performance.  The only race specific improvement we have make is a set of Ullman fiberpath sails.  They only go up on Wednesdays.  We have added an additional set of winches in the cockpit (Lewmar 40's) in addition to the 48's.  They are handy for spinnaker sets easier and winching in the furler in a good blow or winching down the spinnaker tack line if needed.  We ran the spinnaker tack line outside the lifelines similar to the furling line.  All lines are lead aft except the spinnaker and jib halyards.  We rarely adjust the jib halyards when cruising and we set the spinnaker from the foredeck anyway so it's easier to have the halyard at the mast. 

Cory

[Ken Juul]

How "competitive" you are is up to you.  Most serious racers are buying new sails every 3-4 years, get the bottom scrubbed before every race, keep the boat as light as possible, etc.  Kind of opposite the cruising mentality of full tanks, lots of batteries, new sails only when needed (my original main lasted 17 years), boat full of comforts.  That doesn't mean you can't have fun racing your cruising boat.  You can still perfect sail trim and good tactics.  Flying a spinnaker is going to take at least one more adult until your kids get a bit older so if finding crew is a problem then JAM might be a better venue.

[drcam1]

Thanks for the quick responses!  Specifically what I see in my racing future would be weekend races that are JAM and probably 3-4 longer distance races a season that are open PHRF.  I am not cut-throat for sure, but like to be in the mix competitively (no one likes to be the last boat on the lake even if your PHRF helps your final standings).  I think the secondary winches in the cockpit are a must to help with spinnaker use and nice to help with the roller furling on windy days. 

Can anyone comment if you get any kind of PHRF adjustment for using an asymmetrical spinnaker vs a standard spinnaker?  In reading this forum it seems I could sail with a smaller crew with an asymmetrical (I only have experience with a traditional spinnaker).  Realistically, for the crew I would likely have, I think a cruising asymmetrical spinnaker probably makes more sense in the long run.

I don't see myself in a scuba suit scrubbing the bottom with a toothbrush before each race!

In reading some other posts it seems that upgrading the traveller, mainsheet, and genoa sheet cars would all be good updates as well.  There are a couple of Catalina 320's that race at the yacht club I am looking at, but I like the larger size and smaller price tag of the C34.

[ozzie]

I have a C34 MKII with a std rig, wing keel and we race in the spinnaker fleet in an area that has mixed wind but generally less than 10kts. If the you get a regular 10kt + winds in your area then the C34 will sail to its rating. Less wind than that it won't and you will be left watching the fleet sail away. My boat weighs more than Catalina says and is closer to 14,500lbs (dry and empty) than the stated 12,550lbs. We do have some fun racing the boat but we just don't expect to go out and win a bunch of races with it. It is a very comfortable boat with lots of volume and stowage so you just need to figure out if you want comfort or speed.

Dave.

[Gary Brockman]

When my wife and I went looking to buy a boat, our criteria included that it had to look good (nice lines), had cockpit seats long enough to lay down on, was roomy and comfortable enough for us to take to Catalina for a week, and one that I could race in the PHRF fleet.  Having had a number of racing boats in the past, we no longer wanted a boat with a stripped out Spartan interior.  After looking at a lot of boats, we decided on the Catalina 34.  After reviewing the available 34's in Southern California at the time, the deciding factor in picking my 1986 tall rig fin keel was that the boat had been originally set up to race but hadn't been trashed.  My boat came with seven winches, two jib halyards and one spinnaker halyard, a spinnaker pole with an internal topping lift and a fore guy, three headsails, two spinnakers (one symmetrical and one asymmetrical), two mains and Harken roller furling.  We added Garhauer adjustable genoa cars and replaced the original traveler and solid vang with new ones from Garhauer.  To be more competitive, we bought a used 135 and symmetrical chute from Cory and a new main, 155, and reaching asymmetrical chute.

I have not done many of the around the cans windward/leeward races with my 34 as I no longer find them very interesting and prefer destination races.  The boat rates 141 with a 155% genoa, which I have found to be a fair or poor rating, depending on the type of race, the competition, and the conditions.  It is my experience that the boat reaches and runs well but does not go to weather very well against a PHRF fleet stocked with competitive racing designs until the wind is over 12 knots.  Most of our racing has been in winds between 6 and 15 knots, with winds of 6 knots and less being hard to keep up with smaller, lighter boats.

My son-in-law and I have done a lot of double handed racing with the 34 and have found it much easier to use asymmetrical spinnakers shorthanded than using symmetrical ones.  They are great on a reach but are not very good on a broad reach after about 150 degrees.  The 34 does not jibe downwind like a J Boat with an asymmetrical on a sprit and does better with a symmetrical when going deep.  We are still trying to modify our tack line setup as the forces on it on a reach in 15-20 knots are higher than the cam cleat can take.

Our area also offers a Cruising class for older boats that make adjustments to your normal PHRF rating for things such as roller furling, anchor chain in the bow, sail size, dodger up, and type of sails (ie laminated). While some boats can increase their rating by more than 15 points, we maintain our 141 and have found that we are very competitive in this fleet made up mostly of boats from the 70's and 80's.

Overall, in both full crew and double handed races, and in both PHRF and Cruising Division races, our best finishes have been in races with at least 8 knots of wind and that featured more reaching and running and less going to weather.

Gary

[rappareems]

I have been racing my C34 tall rig 1986 for about 8 years now on Lake Ontario.  My rating here is 165 NFS and 147 spinnaker.  I have sailed this boat JAM.  A couple of things, Catalinas are not known for pointing so you have that against you, and you need to do everything you can to maximize the boat, fared bottom, folding prop good sails etc. 

My local club has very competitive sailors and one guy's boat is a real PHRF beater as he sails consistantly 20 to 30 seconds faster than his rating.  I have "won" very few races at home.  This summer we took the boat to the level regatta at Youngstown... very big fleets and took a second against a local there with a pretty tricked out boat, high tech sails againt my dacron, I sailed faster than him and got him on the starts but he out pointed me and had "real good" rating, got me corrected all but one race... but still felt good.  Took the boat to Lake Erie and won my division at the LYRA... Now I will say I had a much better crew on board for the regattas... several young bucks who had been in my Junior program at Olcott.  My jib was new last year and got a new main this season...

[drcam1]

Does this mean I can't have a sailboat that:  isn't too tender, sails straight into the wind, sleeps the starting lineup for the Pistons, has a 4 foot draft, that I can race single-handed? 

HAHA!

As always, life is about compromises, I realize I have to decide before buying which is more important, comfort for the family vs. performance.  It still seems that the C34 is a lot of boat for the money and size that will be fun to participate in races with even without being that competitive.  I really appreciate all the feedback!

[ozzie]

The C34 has allot to offer. Solid construction, well thoughtout comfortable interior, open transom on the newer boats, large cockpit, properly sized hardware, manageable sail plan, just to name a few things. They are also nice to look at with a nice sheer line.
There are many C34's that have cruised coastally and some have crossed oceans in safety.  
The first thing I noticed when I stepped on a C34 that it didn't move much. It felt solid. Then I pulled the floor boards and checked the keel bolts and structure, again it was well done with propper cross beams, good size bolts and a sump that wasn't a deep black hole. The rig tied into the structure of the hull thru rods and mounts to a glassed in horizontal aluminium angle that is then tied into the hull and liner. The electrical system is adequate and I think improvement can be made to it.
My boat is a hurricane survivor and we took my boat apart and put it back together again. I have seen parts of the boat that only the builders have seen. In my opinion there are no nasty suprises hidden in a C34. It is a solid honest boat.

Which ever boat you choose you should sail it first because you have to be happy behind that wheel.

Dave.

[scotty]

I've had my C34 for not quite 3 months now, but have been welcomed in the local (Santa Cruz, CA) beer can races on Wednesday nights.  There are a bunch of boats similar to mine: some C34s, some Ericksons, some Cals etc.  I just figure that I go against them.  It's plenty to get a bit of adrenaline going.  I raced a lot when I was growing up - and am not too into it now, but the competition is fun.  I had a Catalina 30 for about ten years.  On Tuesday evenings for years a group of Catalinas ( 30s and 34s) would go out for informal races.  We all raced against each other and I was always hot to beat a 34!  You might find similar groups in your area.  Another venue I am looking forward to are local distance races.  There are quite a few each year.  I wasn't able to join any of those races yet, but my "dock neighbors" have been most welcoming in inviting me to do so.  My wife and I are planning to join the local yacht club, which will allow other opportunities for racing, as well as other cruising and social opportunities.  Lastly, my father always said "anytime you get two boats on the bay (we sailed on the San Francisco bay) you have a race". 

I find that my C34 is a joy to sail and that it really responds to me tweaking the various controls.  It handles well and presents a complex platform that challenges me to get her moving - and I seem to find venues that allow me to compare skills (in a friendly way).  For me, that's what racing is about.

By the way; my dad came to see our new boat.  Dad won a lot of races and season championships in his day (with my mom as his crew) Thistles, Flying 15s etc..  He's 91 years old now - and I have to say he is pretty slow and well ... he misses a lot now.  So my brother brought him to Alameda to see the new boat in the family.  I just thought he'd sit on the shore.  Nope, he came down to the dock and looked at the boat.  He noticed a missing cotter pin on the starboard aft lower turnbuckle, and a loose downhaul on the jib.  He came aboard and inspected (and I mean Inspected) the boat.  He is familiar with Catalinas (both my brother and myself have owned Catalina 30s).  At the end of his inspection his verdict - "This is a fine boat!"  I haven't seen my father that focused (and enthused) in several years.  It was a real big deal for me. 

Hope you liked the story.

[Michael Shaner]

Nice story scotty...your dad is spot on. The salty know what's up...

Get in those distance races man, and luck to ya!

[sail4dale]

After many years of racing PHRF in my CAt30 I have not gone that route with the 34 MK II.  I figured it would cost upward of $10,00 to properly equip it to be marginally competitive.  So I  have taken the easy  approach with our yacht club races. 

We often have a "cruiser" class in our races.  Here we can apply the PHRF allowed handicaps for roller furling, 135% Genny, fixed props, etc.  With a senior citizen crew we have fun and sometimes even trophy.

Not having a full spinnaker but instead an cruising spin takes  the "foredeck" crew (deck-ape) out of the racing equation.  Maybe I do miss the old days of real competitive racing, bu t after a few post-race cocktails, it really seems the right way to go.

[Stu Jackson]

Dale, we do the very same thing for the National Regatta and the SF Cup.  It encourages folks who may not know all the racing rules to participate.  Believe, me, I know...   Just review the C34 Fleet 1 material on General Activities. Great folks to race with, competitive, but not cut throat.   Great way to go.  My biggest headsail is a 110!!!

[sail4dale]

Stu, another race we have is our reverse start 10 mile race.  We do it twice a year.
The big advantage to "no racers" is with the reverse start your start time is on the race announcement for your adjusted  handicap rating and thereby eliminating the terror of a crowded start line.  The breaks are at1 minute intervals so except for the one design fleets there are only a few starters on the line at a time.  Also you always know where you are in the race compared to others. 

we break down the trophy winners into many categories so there are many winners in the race.