Honda generator and mounting boxes/installation points

[jkar]

Hey, so after exhaustive searches of the message board, it seems that Honda 1000 or 2000 series generators are the way to go.  What I did not find however was conclusions to mounting/usage/running locations.  Seems that (for storage) some put in the port locker, other in the rear, some in the cockpit?  Running them I only found a couple of references and they seemed to be in front of the mast.  There were a couple of mentions of building "boxes" with insulation, but I never did see that these came to fruition.  I see where Ron runs his on a knee pad and that in the bow is way to prone to vibration.  This is what I want to do and if you all could help me out with pros and cons or be blunt and tell me I am way of base that would be helpful.  The local Honda dealer couldn't quite grasp it, more into RV then marine applications.

I want to build a box that I will mount either on the swim ladder and to the rail or on the starboard side of the stern pulpit.  The box I am thinking will be vented on the back panel with the top hinged as well as a "door" for the pull cord.  An option I was thinking of was a "bathroom" fan/vent that I would plug into the second outlet, may be overkill, haven't decided.  This is where the generator will live.  I will secure it in the box and don't want to mess with it.  The main use will be during racing to charge the batteries.  Then when cruising to keep topped up (less power cruising then racing).

So the questions are:

1.  Has anyound done this or do you just run them exposed? Exhaust is hot, does the plastic stay coolish?
2.  Do any of you run your generator while under way?(this will be the main time it is run)  If so do you have it gimballed or does it work OK?
3.  How do you have it connected?  15amp single cord to a 30amp converter into the shorepower connector? Special dual 15amp cords to single 30amp connector into the shorepower(I saw this on an RV site, not sure if it would work)  Hard wired directly into the charger?  DC charging cable and bypass the charger?
4.  Are these OK with the foam padding to absorb the vibration?  Does that impede air flow?

This is going to be my spring project.  Installation mid May and test in June.  Any and all feedback is appreciated.  thanks, Joel

[Ted Pounds]

I have no experience with the generators but I have a couple of thoughts, FWIW.  Seems to me you might have some problems running it in a box.  It will generate a lot of heat that you have to get rid of.  Also you have to get rid of exhaust gasses while providing fresh air for the intake.  I understand that they are very quiet running so the only reason for a box would be to protect from the elements, I think.  But if you still want to go the box route you might try building a prototype and testing it in your backyard where you can easily monitor temperature and so forth.  Good luck.

[cmainprize]

JKAR
Sounds like an interesting project!
Have you considered solar. No smell, no noise, no vibrations.  We run a 125 watt panel on the davits, and a 75 watt on each side of the bimini.  We go unplugged all season.  In full sun the panels make around 15 amps.  Even in cloudy weather they always seem to giving a 3-4 amps.  The system is one of the best improvements we have made to the boat.

Food for thought
Cory

[Stu Jackson]

Hey, so after exhaustive searches of the message board, it seems that Honda 1000 or 2000 series generators are the way to go.  What I did not find however was conclusions to mounting/usage/running locations.  Seems that (for storage) some put in the port locker, other in the rear, some in the cockpit?  

How do you have it connected?  15amp single cord to a 30amp converter into the shorepower connector? Special dual 15amp cords to single 30amp connector into the shorepower(I saw this on an RV site, not sure if it would work)  Hard wired directly into the charger?  DC charging cable and bypass the charger?

Joel, the reason is that everyone who has one has a different way to do it, which I've learned from reading everything you have and I don't even have a generator, or plan on getting one.     But since he wants one, let's not wander off into solar or wind generators, it simply ain't fair to the question(er). 

The storage issue is simply based on the 1000 vs. 2000 unit.  The bigger one doesn't fit in the port locker, period.  So...there isn't a choice.

The most electrically intelligent way to do it is to wire the 120V output to the shorepower inlet.  Any other way makes no sense.  The basic concept here is to use it for charging, so wiring it to the shorepower inlet which is just like using the generator to "replace" the shorepower when you're on the hook, is the way to do it.  All you need is a pigtail adapter and the appropriate length of power cord for where you plan to locate the unit.  

[Ron Hill]

jkar : There have been a number of posts on this topic.  I see the you have a standard transom so here's what I do with the same transom. Walk thur transom people usuallu run the Honda under the helm seat.
 
I run my Honda 1000 only when at anchor (NEVER underway), that's why I have a hi-output alternator.
I usually run it on the port side just fwd of the vented stanchion, with the exhaust facing fwd (wind dissipates the exhaust).  
If is raining I run the Honda setting on the port side of the aft lazetette with the exhaust facing aft.  
Why the port side? so I can plug into the shore power receptacle - 15 amp cord to 30 amp adapter.

The 110v charge goes into the shore power receptacle which goes to the battery charger which charges the batteries.  
I also mentioned that I set my Honda on a foam pad (garden kneeling pad) to eliminate any the vibration.

A few thoughts

[Steve Michel]

Stu;
Iv'e carried the Honda 2000 in my Port locker for about 4 years ( it does fit, you just need to tip it sideways, and push it under the port windlass.) (Make SURE the gas tank isn't full).
I've only needed it twice while anchored out for 3 days to make hot water and then re-charge the batteries.
I ran it in the cockpit all the way aft. Propped it up level with make-shift plywood bracket.  With a nomal airflow, it should vent down wind. Noise was negligible. (They are very quiet).
These generators are very marketable items, and I would think if it is easily seen, it will probably dissapear.
Iv'e had no issues running the hot water heater,or the 20 amp Charles charger, but not at the same time.
Steve

[Stu Jackson]

Steve, that's great news that a 2000 can fit in there.  First I can recall hearing about.  Sheds a brand new light on the choice between a 1000 and a 2000, regardless of intended use (i.e., charger only or hot water, too  ), eh?

Thanks a lot for that.

[David Arnold]

Joel,
I can't add much to what has been said since I have the 2000 and run it on the swim platform as we have a walk thru transom.  That said, if you only want to charge your batteries go with the 1000.  You will need the 2000 if you want to be able to use the hot water heater, microwave (if you have one), hair dryer, etc.  If you don't need the generator for the creature comforts then go with the 2000: lighter weight. less expensive and perhaps smaller (not sure if there is a size difference).  I would also caution you NOT to store a gas generator in a locker unless you run the tank dry.  Gas vapors will find their way into the bilge or engine compartment where you don't want them. 

[Ken Juul]

If I were going to permanently install the Honda I would not hang it on the rail.  With the outboard, flag, fishing rod holders, life ring, stern perch seats, etc there really isn't much room left.  The theft issue is also a big concern.  The Mk 1's have a huge lazarette, I think I would build a sealed box (similiar to propane locker) there.  Fashion an exhaust extension out of copper tubing routed aft thru the transom.  Some sort of asbestos seal would need to be McGuivered where the exhaust tube leaves the box.  Add a couple of vent tubes forward to the cockpit, perhaps a 12v exhaust fan will be needed to help control the box temperature.  A rough sketch, I added it to the stbd side to help counteract the port list.

[tonywright]

I am dubious about using this while racing. I would not want to be sailing in your "dirty air"   

Seriously, I am not sure that you could make any setup safe enough to use while underway, although Ken has given it a pretty good shot.  (Remember that naything that is gas-run would need the fan to be spark-proof and vented for at least one minute before starting up).  One question to get answered would be how much heel the generator can take and still run safely and reliably.

I am pretty sure that those of us that use the Honda only do so at anchor or while tied up.  Preferably while far away from other boats so as not to spoil their peace on the water..

Purpose-built generators like Fischer-Panda are probably better suited for a boat that is underway.  I am guessing that you are looking at this for long distance racing, so be aware that the Honda has a fairly small gas tank, and you would be looking at refilling every few hours, even if you can find a way to make it safe.

Tony

[Roc]

My friend bought a Yamaha generator and it had a 'propane' option that he ordered when he purchased it.  His now runs on propane.  He buys the little bottles used for gas grills. He runs the generator before going to bed, using it to power the air conditioner. He says it lasts at least 4 hours.  When the propane runs out, the generator shuts down.  I guess if he wanted to run it longer, he could get a larger bottle, or maybe plumb it into his stove propane tank.  I don't have a generator, but if I did ever get one, I would look into this option because I like this idea of powering with propane, no issue with CO vapors or gasoline vapors.

[Ron Hill]

Guys : A word of caution about tipping any 4 cycle engine on it side too long.  
I'd ask Honda:  1. Which side to tilt it on?  
                    2. How long can it be tilted before the oil in the crank case moves to/past the piston?

I say that because the increased height of the 2000 over the 1000 Honda requires that on a MK I it needs to be pushed well fwd and to the port side of the hull in the lazerette.  The generator handle must be fwd of the port side combing storage. The 2000 will store there, but it is not easily accessable to get in there or out.

Maybe the tipping is a non problem, but I'd surely ask Honda the question.  A thought

[waterdog]

.... I like this idea of powering with propane, no issue with CO vapors or gasoline vapors.

Why would there be no issue with CO vapors?   Wouldn't the exhaust from propane combustion kill you just as handily as gasoline?

[Rick Johnson]

I believe that the exhaust would be carbon dioxide and water vapor for the most part. There is a bit of unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, but not very much.  This is why they use propane powered forklifts inside warehouses.

That said, you would still not want to run the generator without good ventilation and you especially would not want to run the generator inside the cabin.  Even trace amounts of CO can build-up without ventilation..

Cheers,

Rick

[jkar]

Thanks everybody.  I found another Honda dealer, this time he was a boater, power, but at least he could grasp the idea.  He talked me into a 2000 v 1000.  "For an extra $200 you get twice the output, and you can find 15lbs to lose somewhere else" was his quote.  I shared my thoughts and yours and he agreed with most all of them.  For a box, it does need to be vented, a fan is too much.  He suggested more of an "open" plan with back plane to re-direct what little noise there is, sides and a hinged top, no "front", leave it open on that side.  I asked about rain/water, he said it would have to come down pretty hard to stop the generator, that the top was a "feel good" idea and could be left off.  He then went back and said the rest was a bit much as these are super quiet, that a platform is all that is really needed, but I still want a little barrier between it an the cockpit.  The airflow is from the sides so padding to help dampen the vibration would be OK.  To keep it simple run the 15/20a cord to a 30a pigtail into the shorepower.  The big part was keeping it fairly level.  Bouncing around on the hook is perfectly fine, landing off 6-8 footers, not so good.  Hey questioned if I would ever run it then.  While it would not be ideal, there have been 24 periods where it has been constant.  So he said definitely compensate for the angle of heel.  So I will start construction this weekend.  It is going to be a couple of weeks until he gets in more 2000s, I will then be able to test.  Thanks again for all the input.  Joel