RUDDER REPAIR

[Bill Asbury]

Discovered water in rudder leaking from pinhole on side since boat stored on land for winter and drilled a few 1/4" holes on port side of rudder to drain.  Checked wiki etc. and called/emailed Kent at Catalina and followed his guidance to drop rudder 2" and seal at top with 5200.  He also suggested pouring polyester resin down inside rudder stock to prevent water incursion from cockpit sole emergency tiller port, which my helper/friend doesn't think necessary, but which I might do anyway.

My question to the forum is:  What should I use to fill those holes I drilled in the rudder???
Marine-Tex
West System
5200
or???

Launch date is 3/31 so must make sure holes are sealed permanently/water-tight.  Daytime temps here will average no more than 50s daytime so if I use Marine-Tex will use hairdryer to heat rudder before and after filling holes as indicated in Marine-Tex instructions.

Thanks for your suggestions and thanks in particular to Stu, Jon, David, Ron and all others who make this board an invaluable resource.

Bill
'91 C34 #1140 

[Jon Schneider]

I think (and "thinking" may be overstating my capability in this area) any of them would work.  I'm not a fan of Marinetex only because I'm not exactly sure what it is.  I suppose it would be easy enough to find out, but I never felt the need to.  I think you'll find that 5200 will be easier to apply because you can squeeze it in, though I wonder how well it will cure inside.  I also like it because it has good adhesive properties, while West System requires bonding (which I don't think will be a problem in this case).  That said, I think I would go with WS or some kind of two-part epoxy, because I would feel better about its curability inside the rudder.  But if I were you, I'd listen to everyone else's advice before I took mine ;0

[steve stoneback]

Bill,
I agree with Jon, I too would use West System or some other 2 part epoxy.  I would first wet coat the holes with a coat of the epoxy, let it partially cure and then mix another small batch with filler to make it peanut butter consistency and fill the holes.  Of course this should all be done after the holes have dried out thoroughly.  5200 would also work, I just prefer epoxy.
good luck
Steve

[Steve Sayian]

Bill,

I had a crack in the leading edge as well as around the top of the post of my rudder last year.

I ground both out with a Dremel tool, filled with Marinetex and then put 5200 over as a seal.

When to boat came out last fal, there was no visible evidence of the crack appearing.

When I ground out the crack, I made an inverted "V" so the marinetex would bond against the walls and not expand out.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[Ted Pounds]

MarineTex is a 2-part epoxy and would work well for this.  I've used on other projects with good results.  You may need to drill some more holes to thoroughly dry out the inside of the rudder.  And definitely fill the rudder stock.  That's likely how the water got in there.  Use a can or two of the spray foam that you can get at any hardware store.  If the water coming out is rusty you may want to think about getting a new rudder...

[Bill Asbury]

Thanks, Jon, Steve, Steve and Ted for your quick responses.  I have some Marine-tex epoxy on hand which I've used on other repairs so I may use it on this rudder repair but will also take a look at a West System epoxy repair kit befoe deciding.

When I ground out the top of the rudder around the stock I could not see any space allowing a leak around the stock and there was no crack in the top of the rudder, but I sealed it with 5200 anyway.
I'll follow Ted's suggestion and inject spray foam into the rudder via the stock.

The water seeping out of the port side of the rudder midway down via a pinhole was rusty, so I was concerned about possible severe corrosion of the mild steel plate attached to the rudderstock.  However, Kent at Catalina said of all the old rudders of this description they've seen they haven't seen a failure due to the plate detaching from the stock, so he wouldn't worry about it.   My wife thinks this is a good excuse to trade for a new/newer C34.  Now let's see, where did I bury that coffee can...:-)

Thanks again,
Bill

[horsemel]

I dropped and repaired my rudder two years ago.  I filled the holes with WS 2 part expoxy.  After that cured I put a fiber glass bandaid over each hole and expoxied that, then sanded smooth.  Filled the post with expanding foam insulation and sealed the top of the rudder post where it enters the rudder.  I have not drilled any new holes to see if it has more water.  Maybe ignorance is bliss.
Mark Mueller
Blue Moon #815
1988

[Ron Hill]

Bill : I'd use a 2 part epoxy paste to fill the drilled holes, 5200 to fill the "V" around the SS column into the rudder lay up and Gluv-It to fill the inside of the stainless column. 

[Footloose]

Bill,

Be sure that there is no water inside the post.  I had about a gallon when I did the same repair.  You can pump or siphon it out.

[Bill Asbury]

Many thanks to Mark, Ron and Dave for your suggestions, each of which I'm sure will be most helpful.
Kind regards,
Bill

[Ron Hill]

Bill : Way back in the Mainsheet tech notes 15? years ago, I recommended putting some alcohol in the rudder column to assimilate the residual moisture to dry it out before putting the epoxy in. 
I recommended Gluvit, because it flows easily and takes awhile to set up (more than an hour).  This allows it to get into all of "the nooks & crannies" before it kicks.   

[Stu Jackson]

GluVit is a very good product.  Ron is right about its properties, and is a very good application in your rudder for GluVit.

We've also used it for a waterproofing seal at the base of a 4x4 concrete curb in our basement.  The curb was installed to channel water from a local underground waterway which seeps under the foundation onto the concrete slab.  The GluVit sealed the joint between the new curb the existing slab, where when initially installed, water would run under the joint.  We just painted it on.  Did a full water test after the cure time and it worked perfectly.  And has continued to do so for the past ten + years.

Its consistency is like Marine Tex, another great product - both work best when they're kinda like the consistency of ketchup!   Good for injecting it into cracks and crevices with a caulking gun type of tool.

PS - niether GluVit or MarineTex come in tubes, they're epoxies to be mixed, but the consistency of the material can be put in a disposable "injector"f soem sort to get into cracks and crevices.

[Bill Asbury]

Ron & Stu, many thanks for your followups re Gluvit.  Gonna get some of that good stuff today!!!
Thanks again.
Bill

[Stu Jackson]

Here's a parallel discussion from another universe:  http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=106110

[Bill Asbury]

Another universe indeed, Stu.  Every litter bit helps.  Thanks!
Bill