Searching the C34 Website & "Too Much Information"

[Stu Jackson]

Too Much Information

Dear C34 Message Board Registrants, Contributors, Lurkers and Friends,

I wrote the following post in August 2006 in response to a registrant. He'd expressed his frustration in, first, not getting an immediate answer to his question that was over a weekend and didn't get him the immediate pictures he wanted (they simply did not exist at the time!), and second, that we kept suggesting to him that he use the search engine(s).  I know, I know, YOU do, and many others, including me, have been "better" in posting links and more detailed directions for answers to new questions.

If any of you are frustrated with answers, please keep reminding us and we promise to get better.   The concept still remains about Too much information.  That's WHY we've incorporated a Google search engine for the entire website (Many Thanks to our Webmaster Dave Sanner for making that improvement), the search engine on this MB, the Knowledgebase (thanks to Jon Schneider) and the new wiki (Thanks to Ken Juul, Dave Sanner, Jon Schneider and Craig Illman).  Those names may be very familiar to you, since they continue to reappear in responding to many of your questions. 

We're constantly trying to make things easier to find, but there remains, thank goodness, so much material that we've worked VERY hard to categorize it in two importantly DIFFERENT WAYS.  That's 'cuz different people think in different ways. 

Some like book "Indexes," which is like searching by individual items, like windlasses, vangs, travelers, alternators.  This is what SEARCH engines do the best.

Others like the "Table of Contents" approach, where topics are covered by systems, like electrical, engines, fuel, plumbing,, etc.  That's how the Knowledgebase and the new wiki are organized.

You now all really have it the best of both ways.  We'll continue to help point out how to use the 'site, and provide links wherever we can and appreciate those who help out by providing links, and those who say "I've done a search and still need your help." 

There's always something new, which is why this is such a valuable resource for C34 Owners and all others who visit our website.

Keep the questions coming, and thanks again.

Stu

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I sense a certain amount of frustration in your comments, and please believe me that I DO understand.  One of the many issues that we have faced in the past TWENTY YEARS is that there is almost TOO MUCH information available.  This is thanks to the great community of C34 owners, including you, who have contributed over the years.

I discussed the background of the website and the different types of information in my recent post, "Guide to the C34 Website" at http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2629.0.  A number of years ago, another new member vociferously complained about "our attitude" in responding to his and others' questions by saying "go look it up," and I was personally challenged to continually remind myself that it is important to guide fellow skippers and not to berate them.  I've continued to try to do that with including references in my posts and developing posts like the one mentioned above.  I will continue to try to help you ("I am under the impression that is the main reason for the forum. To share ideas."  "That is all fine if you can find it.").

You're right, but sometimes folks just simply do not have the answers to your specific question, just yet.  There is also the reality that of the 1700+ C34s produced to date, a bit less than half (710) are members of the C34IA, and, of those, experience indicates that only a small percentage are active on the board based on the recurrence of the contributors.  There has been a flood a new members to this Board, and we welcome that.  I continue to be proud of those members who repeatedly donate their time, effort and contributions on a regular basis, and without whom this website would cease to be of value.  Many of them have also expanded their volunteer technical enthusiasm and become active participants in the Association, which benefits all C34 owners.

One of things you may have noticed about this 'site is that it has a minimum of pictures compared to other 'sites, although some early ones may be found at www.c34.org, in Voyages and Gallery.  I recall that we discussed this recently in your wallpaper post.  As noted in the FAQs, "Why I Bought a C34," there seem to be a lot of engineer-types who are willing to verbally discuss and describe their experiences and efforts, hence the voluminous Tech Notes, FAQs and Projects.  It's been only rather recently that photographic evidence of work has come to the fore, in both the Tech Notes and right here on the message board.  One of the reasons for the lack of a response to your questions about windlasses may simply be that no one has taken pictures of their installations other than those who have already contributed theirs to the Projects section, or the Tech Notes.  I'm sure you're aware that there are two pages of results on a search on the word "windlass" on this board, and I don't see that any have pictures.

Sometime searching IS hard.  I've found it sometimes difficult here, myself, in trying to find answers for questions instead of saying "go look it up, it's already there."  Sometimes I take the time to find what someone is looking for and give them the link, simply because I've spent so much time here, both contributing and learning, and can recall helpful search queries to find the earlier answers.  There is a LOT of reading to do, but I hope that asking questions continues, because we want, to the best of our ability, to help find the answers for you.

One of the other suggestions I have made over the years is that folks take the time to copy and paste the Tech Notes Index onto their word processors to make searching easier, because, quite frankly, the search engine on the www.c34.org portion of the website leaves a lot to be desired.  Accordingly, I will create a separate post and provide my copy of the Tech Notes Index (which I created in 1998 and which grew into the TNO) and post it on the Message Board.

It's here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3096.0

It does not include the past few issues (it goes from 1987 to 2004, OK?), but you'll get the idea.  Perhaps the MB search engine will work on this new MB post better , but you can always cut & paste it to your own word processing program and use CNTL-F to find any words you want.  Also, a feature I just discovered:  If you do a search from any of the basic MB pages, you will find another "search" to the left of the words "search results" at the upper left of the first posting of your initial results.  Click on the word search to the left of search results.  This new page will allow you to refine your search.  This is another carefully hidden, but available, feature from the makers of our software package.  Sorry, we didn't write the software, we're just using it, as are many other associations. [Added note 8/8/06: an easier way to do this is just to click on Advanced Search!]

I also understand your concern about finding information on the disk.  We have had questions about this, too, and I recommended the following: "You could also take your C34IA CD-ROM, stick it in your computer's CD drive, and use Window's "Find" for a search on these topics."  One of the reasons for this is that the search feature on the disc, as I understand it, is "way old" computer technology, since it was developed in 2001, light years ago in computer time.  The file names, which are pretty straightforward, on the files on the CD are available on your "D" drive in Windows Explore, too.

I also encourage folks to respond to the MB rather than separate emails to respondents, so that we all can view the pictures that may be available.  This post was helpful:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2720.0 and http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3701.0.html.  Perhaps a photo of your particular setup that you've described in your most recent post would encourage some other responses.

Thank you again, for contributing and explaining your issues and concerns.  Please keep pointing out those areas that we can improve upon.   Remembering that this is an all volunteer group, we really do want to help.

[David Sanner]

To follow on Stu's comments:

The wiki is coming along and is nicely consolidating, organizing
and linking content.   And of course it is searchable as everything on
the site is via google.   (google tip, add this to your search:     site:c34.org   )

However google searches can be out of date so for the most recent content
use the BBS search or the Wiki search as they are always current.

Here's a list of wiki pages that are popular so far.  They
start with top level navigation and subject level grouping
and eventually get down to single subjects.

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Popularpages&limit=500