Fuel Tank Inspection Port and Cleaning

[Stu Jackson]

Bill, that sounds somewhat unusual.  Why not just connect the new long fuel hose to the outlet of the fuel pump (disconnect the fuel line TO the engine) and run the pump by turning the ignition switch ON?  The fuel line from the tank should go to the Racor first and then the fuel pump.  I still have NO idea what you mean about the raw water line.  If you try to pump or siphon the fuel from the tank through the thru hull you'll most likely just get fuel all over your hull.  If you try to siphon only, you'll need something to start the siphon.  Sucking on the hose won't cut it with diesel fuel unless you have a LOT of garlic around, so use the pump.  If not, the best way I've found to siphon is to use a small hand pump like on outboard motor fuel lines.  See page 2, column 1 here: http://www.c34.org/fleet1/pdf/August07.pdf

Keep the extension hose to use for replacing the fuel hoses at a later date, or now when you're done if you haven't replaced the fuel hoses in a while.

[foursailing]

Thanks Stu - So my thought was to run the extra fuel line from the Racor output (or better yet, fuel pump outlet), remove the water intake hose from the through hull fitting (obviously the boat is out of the water), creating a hole for me to pass the temporary fuel line through.  I'll then have the fuel containers sitting on the ground, which I would think would be less messy then doing that on the deck or in the cabin.

Follow my (so called) logic?

Thanks,

Bill

[Ken Juul]

That sounds like a great plan.  Minimize the chances of a fuel spill in the cabin.  My only concern might be the internal diameter of the thru hull, will the fuel hose fit through it?  If not, a possible solution would be a section of copper tubing  going through the thru hull with the fuel lines attached to both ends.

[foursailing]

Thanks Ken - hopefully the fuel line will fit, but if not the copper tube sounds like a good option!

[Ted Pounds]

Just a thought - if you're only using the fuel hose for the pump out get the cheap stuff at an auto supply place.  Or, if your fuel hose is old, then get good, marine rated fuel hose and when you're done use it to replace all the existing hose.

[Ron Hill]

Bill : The easyest way that I've found to drain the tank and save the fuel is to put a length of 3/8" fuel hose on the outout of the electric fuel pump. 
Then turn on the key switch and control the on/off of the pump with the battery selector switch.  When you fill a 5 gal tank turn off the battery switch and put the fuel hose into an empty 5 gal container and start again.  Inbetween you can sit on the head seat and monitor.   A thought. 

[foursailing]

Ron - This was plan today - hooked 3/8 fuel line to the output of fuel pump then turned the ignition key to on position - but all's I got was a dribble (< a gallon an hour) and no noise was heard from the pump. When I turned off the battery off, still got the same dribble.   I don't think the on position turns the fuel pump on for my M35 (?) and it was just gravity responsible for the flow ( routed lines down a through hull to the can on the ground - obviously I'm not in the water!)

When I got home I double checked the manual, it read "fuellift pump is energized by the key switch/preheat button".  Since I didn't turn the key all the way to engage the preheat, I'm assuming I didn't energize the fuel pump ??? (don't think it would be a good idea to keep preheat for extended period.)

My next option is just to drain the tank by connecting fuel line that goes to INPUT of racor and just use gravity or find a fuel safe pump.  I would then recycle the fuel through a 3 stage baja filter back into to the tank. 

Poured the startron fuel cleaner in the other day -a little concerned about the filter clogging issue since it's pretty tricky getting out of the marina I'm at (narrow "creek" with 2 opening bridges before I get to the bay!).

[Ted Pounds]

Bill,
I believe you're right about the pump not working without the key on.  I recall my old neighbor's MKII was the same way.  I also remember it was possible to "jumper" it temporarily to make it work without the key on.

[Jon Schneider]

Bill, I wonder if your fuel pump is working.  While I have an M25-XP, I do have a new (last year) Seaward engine panel, so yours should work the same way, and my fuel pump definitely turns on when the key is set to on; there's an audible clicking of the pump.  My original (1990 vintage) panel worked the same way.

[Stu Jackson]

Re reply #21 above.

Please read this: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3347.45.html, especially reply #52 on page 4 - it's a VERY long thread.  There's more later on that thread where I essentially "predicted" what you're discussing.

YOU have to KNOW how your engine is wired and how it works.

If you want the easy way out, just jumper around the fuel pump and get it to work with the ignition switch on, and NOT the glow plug position.  See my "Unforeseen Circumstances" post on that thread.

Or "FIX" it back to the way the older boats were sired, simpler and more effective when bleeding and doing this kinda thing...

I personally think the "new improved" way is nuts.  I also think the diode "solution" was wrong.

[Jon Schneider]

Bill, I'm not going to let this monkey on my back go: do you hear an audible clicking sound from the fuel pump when the glow plugs are engaged?  I find it hard to believe that brand new Seaward panels are being modified by CY at the factory to move the fuel pump lead from the on switch to the glow position.  It's actually logical, and something that I have considered doing, since we shouldn't need the fuel pump on all the time, but it makes no sense to me that CY is doing that.  Wouldn't they just ask Seaward to reconfigure the boards?  Mk II owners: is it true that your fuel pump only clicks in when you're heating the glow plugs?

[Steve Sayian]

Jon,

I have never heard the fuel pump click on my M-35 regardless of the position of the ignition switch.  I think it only engages when the engine starts (would never hear it then).

The first time I chnaged the fuel filters I was at a loss as to how to bleed them.  My C-30 had the M-25 and I, like you would just turn the ignition on to energize the pump.  Not so on the M-35.  I use the hand pump mechanism on the top of the Racor filter to bleed air to the injectors.  Quite a PITA.

Steve

[foursailing]

Jon - Unfortnately I was not able to try that (glow plugs engaged) since I was the only person at the boat (need a helper), but there was definetly no clicking from the pump when the switch was just on the on position - just the anoying alarm.

Also in the manual it indicates to bleed the system you should loosen nuts above injectors and "turn the engine"??

Any other suggestions to drain the tank?  Checked on the baja filter and that filters down to 74 micron vs. 2 micron for the racor.  Still worried about the filters clogging at the wrong time after the Startron tank cleaner treatment.  My next thought is to drain the tank, put in fresh fuel (enough to safely get me past to the bay), then put the old stuff back in (filtered through the baja) once I'm safe at my mooring.

Stu - Thanks for the link to the thread - I'll have to read through that tonight.   This is my second season with the boat and still have a lot of learning to do but with the help of the board I'm making progress.

[foursailing]

Steve - looks like we posted at the same time, but that's consistent with what I've observed / read.

Thanks!

[Stu Jackson]

Jon, the newer boats fuel pump only runs when the glow plugs are energized OR the oil pressure is up (i.e., the engine is working).  That was the whole point of my reference to the earlier thread.  It's NOT Catalina doing anything to the panels, it is where the wires from the panel go TO, based on the wiring diagrams quoted in that thread.