Batteries

[Robert Mann]

So here's the wreck your battery story.
For the last year or so we have run the refridgeration on our 2002 continuously.  During this summer I began to notice that the rear battery was using water, (warning bell should have gone off in my head, it didn't).  As the summer came to an end, batteries using lots of water to the point where I was adding pints!  Last week I found my 30A breaker tripped and the batteries at 8 volts. Fridge was defrosted though!  The optimist in me, that surfaces rarely, decided to try and recharge said batteries, fat chance.

I now need 2 new 4D's.  Anyone have preferences regarding brands?  I might try Interstate dual purpose SRM4D.

I'm guessing that the power consumption from the refridgeration during a long hot summer caused a draw on the batteries and charging system that was so high the batteries, as they aged, failed to be able to charge past the gassing point thereby virtually boiling them. Allowing the cells to get low caused overheating and plate distortion.

Any thoughts on the diagnosis?

[Stu Jackson]

What charger do you have?

[Ron Hill]

Bob : If you don't have a "smart" charger (ramp up, bulk and float charges), you now know why you need one.
I don't know what you were keeping cold in the fridge, but I surly hope it was more expensive that the replacement cost of 2 4D batteries!! 
It's not prudent to keep the fridge on unless you're on the boat. Many post on this topic.
A few thoughts.   

[Craig Illman]

Another feature to consider while you're researching chargers is equalization. Instead of trying to explain it, I'd suggest you peruse www.amplepower.com and study your Calder book to learn about wet-cell maintenance to maximize battery life.

Craig

[Ken Krawford]

Bob,

Your situation sounds exactly like what happened to Dottie Toney last year.  A battery was going bad, the charger kept  dumping amps trying to charge it and  finally cooked the battery.
Why not consider 4 six volt golf cart battery.  More amp hours, the same or less money than the 4D's and a whole lot easier to get in and out.  By the way, I'll be out of the country when you pull those dead batteries!  (just kidding)

Ken Krawford

[Roc]

Bob,
I replaced my 4D's last August '05.  The reason they went was the wing nut connection was loose (lesson, always make sure connections are tight).  Anyway, a dock friend told me that Sam's Club sells 4D's, at under $100 each.  I bought two and they seem to be working fine.  I called Champion (maker of these batteries, accroding to the tag) and tried to find out if these were actually deep cycle batteries.  The fellow wouldn't really say.  What's interesting is the specs on these are actually better than the 4D specs on batteries sold by WM, that are advertised as dual purpose.  On another note, a fellow dock neighbor recently bought Interstate RV/Marine batteries for his C320.  He said he ordered them from a local autoparts store.  Paid about $150 each.

[Stu Jackson]

Bob,

The reason I asked about the charger is that we have found many battery-life issues to be directly related to the quality, or lack thereof, of the charger.  You also could have just had one bad (or dying) battery that went down, or, as noted, a bad connection(s) somewhere.  Could be lots of things in the overall electrical system.  Also, don't forget to check your ground wiring, too.

You noted: "... that the power consumption from the refrigeration during a long hot summer caused a draw on the batteries and charging system..."

The fridge draws 5 amps at about a 50% duty cycle (on or off half the time).  [This assumes an Adler Barbour.  A recent post here indicated someone had one that drew only 3 amps, but someone else noted that it was on all the time!]

I would doubt that your charger was anything less than a 10 amp charger for a C34.  Therefore, the charger should always have been putting in more than the fridge could ever take out.

So it sounds like a battery age or connection problem, unless you do not have a quality charger.  A search on "charger" and "Charles" will lead to you previous detailed discussions.

As far as replacement batteries, you may want to consider something less bulky than 4Ds.  Many have golf carts, I have 3 Group 27 (or 31?) for only $85 or $95 each (!!!) giving us 390 amp hours in our house bank, and a separate small starting battery.  The house bank is from American Battery in Hayward, CA, a local quality vendor, and MUCH less than West Marine.  But that doesn't help you in GA, right?     So do what Ken suggested and get in touch with Dottie who is the Fleet captain and find out where they get theirs -- it really is a local issue.

If you haven't yet read it, I highly recommend reading Jim Moe's excellent article on boat electrical systems in the Projects section of the website:  http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html  Take a look at the other electrical systems posts in Projects, too.

There are literally tons of posts on the message board about "batteries" and "fridge" for your review from searches; I read some yesterday and they may be of help to you.

[Fuzzy]

Sams Club has 6 volt golf cart batteries for abt. $49 ea.  Same specs as Trojan
T105's I think.

[Robert Mann]

OK Gents heres the scoop;

Ron
I have a 3 stage C-Charger from Charles, so as long as its functioning correctly, which I will find out after I get the new batteries installed, life should be good.

No, there was absolutely jack in the reefer that remotely approached the cost of 2 4Ds.  Quite an expensive 6 pack, butter and coffee creamer!!!

Ken
Run away I'm going to pull em this weekend.  I'm going to use the large object that normal sits on the rail and drinks the beers that were previously kept cool in the fridge.  Course he will run a mile if he finds out they weigh 119 lbs apiece and the beer is warm 

I'm in two minds about what to replace with.  The 4Ds are $170 each from Interstate.  Could do Golf Cart batteries a little cheaper, but I will really need to add a starting battery and wire to suit.  This is probably the way to go as independence on the starting circuit is a good thing.

So I need to do some research regarding wiring so I can figure out what to do with the charging circuit and its effect on a bank of golf cart batteries and a starting battery.

[Jim Price]

Bob, just another thought.  I replaced the original charger on Lady DI with a Truecharge 20+.  I am running the house on 2 Group 31's and have a dedicated third battery (for now an aging Group 27 that was in the boat when I bought it 4 years ago) that drives the refrigerator.  The Truecharge handles each battery charging separately and the 2 G31's are NOT part of the reffer circuit but the single G27 can be switched to join the G31 banks in an emergency.  My refer stays on 24/7/365 since it has an automatic defrost cycle so I think this speaks well for the Charger and dedicated battery setup.  Been running for 4 years.

However, I do plan to replace all batteries when they fail in the future with 6V golf cart network.  Expensive at startup but best deal for the money over the long haul - as long as you have a good smart charger.

[sail4dale]

I replaced the 4 D's with 6V golf cart batteries about a year and a half ago and at the same time got rid of the  $&^%$$$$ Flyback charger and put on a Charles.  I do not use a separate starter battery circuit but just use my house bank. 
I watch the voltage and if I do get into trouble, I have a $50 suitcase that I bought from Costco that will start my boat several times if needed without recharging (from the cigarette lighter or AC).  I love the system and have more ampere-hours that ever before.

Don't know why you need to install a starter circuit.

[wind dancer]

I replaced the 4 D's with 6V golf cart batteries about a year and a half ago and at the same time got rid of the  $&^%$$$$ Flyback charger and put on a Charles.  I do not use a separate starter battery circuit but just use my house bank. 
I watch the voltage and if I do get into trouble, I have a $50 suitcase that I bought from Costco that will start my boat several times if needed without recharging (from the cigarette lighter or AC).  I love the system and have more ampere-hours that ever before.

Don't know why you need to install a starter circuit.

That's my plan exactly.  The two group 29s that were on the boat (and had been run almost dry by the PO) are nearing their end.  Four Trojan T-105s will be replacing them as soon as budget allows.  I've been looking at getting either a Xantrex 600HD suitcase or a Honda 1000 as backup power.  Maybe the Xantrex for now, and the Honda in the future?

I think that's a great combination, and most any 12v (or pair of 6v) deep cycle battery have eough cranking amps to start a little diesel engine.

[clifford Rieders]

The glass matt Lifeline batteries I purchased, with high output alt and solar panal is a hard installation to beat. Power for all our needs, reliable and long life. Its the best approach I have tried. Cliff Rieders c34 tall rig, 1990, #1022

[captran]

Last summer I finally bit the bullet and replaced the 4D's with the Trojan Golf Cart batteries.  We have had a true charge 40 and the link 20 monitoring system, and the standard alternator.  We pull into a marina about once a week, and anchor out the rest of the time during a 9 week cruise.  We had changed the 4D's before and they are just way too big and heavy, and getting them out and in was a pain in the back.  The golf cart batteries were very easy to wire, much lighter and we are extremely happy with them.  they seem to recharge must faster than the 4D's.  There is a great pic of the installtion on the web site.  We put ours in individual battery boxes that were cut down, screwed in and strapped.  Highly recommend it. 

[wind dancer]

The golf cart batteries were very easy to wire, much lighter and we are extremely happy with them.  they seem to recharge must faster than the 4D's.  There is a great pic of the installtion on the web site.  We put ours in individual battery boxes that were cut down, screwed in and strapped.  Highly recommend it. 

Randy,

As I mentioned above, I'm doing just this in the spring.  I have a 3/4" plywood base I'm painting and putting down, and have been thinking about battery hold-down ideas.  I really like the idea of using cut-down battery boxes that are screwed into the base.  Which boxes did you use/where did you find them?  Are the pics on this site?

Thanks,

Jay