C34 Gross tonnage...

[Mike Smith]

Does anyone happen to know the gross tonnage of the C34?  Is it the same as the weight in tons?

Mike

[Gary]

Mike,

According to our survey Gross tonnage is listed as 13 tons.  Net tonnage at 12 tons. And displacement at +/- 11,950 dry.

What is Gross Tonnage?

Gross tonnage is a measure of the internal capacity of a ship, tug or barge. It is a cubic or space measurement of all areas of a vessel with some allowances or deductions for exempt spaces such as living quarters.

What is Net Tonnage?

Net tonnage is a measure of the internal capacity of a ship, tug or barge's cargo space volume only.

Displacement: the direct measure of the actual weight of a vessel. Displacement tonnage is the weight of water displaced by the hull of a boat. A vessel floating in fluid will always displace an amount of fluid equal to its own weight.

[Mike Smith]

Thanks, Gary!

Mike

[Breakin Away]

My C34MkII was documented by the prior owner as 7 gross tons. I am almost certain that this is an error. Like many, he probably mistakenly entered the displacement (in tons) of a fully provisioned vessel.

I would like to have the documentation corrected for a variety of reasons including licensing. 13 tons gross falls into a higher category for experience.

My question is: What is the gross tonnage of the C34MkII? Does the broader transom translate into a higher gross tonnage than the original C34?

EDIT: I found the formula on USCG website. Looks like the transom width does not affect it, because it's based on beam at widest point. I'd still like to hear if someone has "the answer" because it could allow me to make the correction before hauling out:

https://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/tonnage/docs/TG-1_Current.pdf

12. GROSS TONNAGE FORMULATION (MONOHULL VESSELS)
The basic Simplified tonnage formula for gross register tons of a monohull vessel is:
GRT = (Hull Volume + Deckhouse Volume)/100
Where:
Hull Volume = S x K x L x B x D
Deck Structure Volume = Ls x Bs x Ds
Note: For vessels with small deckhouses and other deck structures, the deck structure volume is
ignored (treated as "zero" value). Deck structure volume is accounted for only if the
volume of the principal deck structure is equal to or greater than the hull volume.
The overall dimensions of the hull are as follows:
L = Overall Length
B = Overall Breadth
D = Overall Depth
Note: D is normally measured from the deck edge down to where the hull meets the keel, except
for vessels designed for sailing where the interface between the "keel" and the "bottom
skin of the hull" is not clearly defined (as is the case with an "integral" or "faired" keel),
for which the depth is measured to the bottom of the keel.
The shape factor (S) is as follows:
S = 0.5 for hulls designed for sailing (finest hull form)
S = 0.67 for powerboats, ship-shape and circular hulls
S = 0.84 for barges and boxed-shaped hulls (fullest hull form)
The keel factor (K) is as follows:
K = 1.0 for all hull configurations except those designed for sailing wherein the Overall Depth
includes the keel.
K = 0.75 for hulls designed for sailing wherein the Overall Depth includes the keel. 

[KWKloeber]

Why do you care what the gross tonnage is listed at? 
It's irrelevant to anything do do with sailing or hauling or berthing the boat.
I've found that getting the USCG to change anything is like pulling nail out of concrete, plus you pay to revise the documentation.

-k

[Breakin Away]

Why do you care what the gross tonnage is listed at? 
It's irrelevant to anything do do with sailing or hauling or berthing the boat.
I've found that getting the USCG to change anything is like pulling nail out of concrete, plus you pay to revise the documentation.

-k

In the future, it may affect the tonnage of the captain's license that I will qualify for. IIRC, if the tonnage of the boat on which I accumulate my days of experience is over 11 GT, then I qualify for a higher level license.

My boat's dimensions are in the USCG registry also, and when you apply the formula to those dimensions, the number comes out way higher than 7 GT.

[KWKloeber]

Ah ha.   Check online for the fee to revise that; <$100 I think.

You can see if Judy Pyles is still with the West Virginia NVDC and ck with her on the change.
(800) 799-8362
Judy.M.Pyles@uscg.mil

-kk

[Jon W]

My USCG documentation lists my 1987 MK 1 with Gross Tonnage = 14 GRT; Net Tonnage = 12 NRT. GRT is Gross Registered Tons; and NRT is Net Registered Tons.

GRT is the total permanently enclosed capacity of the vessel as its basis for volume. Net Registerd Tons subtracts the volume of non-revenue-earning spaces (i.e. spaces not available for carrying cargo, for example engine rooms, fuel tanks and crew quarters) from the Gross Register Tonnage. Gross Register Tonnage is not a measure of the vessel's weight or displacement.

For what it's worth when mine was hauled out a month ago with ~30 gals of water, ~10 gals diesel plus a 6 hp outboard, the travel lift measured her weight at ~15,000lb.

[Breakin Away]

Ah ha.   Check online for the fee to revise that; <$100 I think.

You can see if Judy Pyles is still with the West Virginia NVDC and ck with her on the change.
(800) 799-8362
Judy.M.Pyles@uscg.mil

-kk

I called today, though I ended up speaking to someone else. The wrong formulas were applied in the calculation, leading to a number of errors. The biggest error was using a K-factor for an integral keel. This factor is used when a full keel is faired with the hull in a way that you can't tell where the keel-hull joint is. So you use the depth of the hull+keel, and multiply by 0.75. My documentation agent used the depth of the hull alone, but still applied the K-factor of 0.75, resulting a significant error. There were other mistakes made too, and if I'm going to redo the documentation I should have them all fixed.

These are the kinds of mistakes that are made when a 3rd party agent who is not familiar with the vessel does the work. My mortgage company required me to use her. Of course, she wants another $250 to redo it for me. Needless to say, I'm rather upset about paying twice for the help of someone who did not make the effort to familiarize herself with my vessel in the beginning. I plan to call the mortgage company and ask them to let me do it myself, since that's the only way I am confident that it will be done right.

As part of this process, I want to request a "facts of build" letter from Catalina. That is the best way to ensure that the correct numbers are used. Do any of you know who the contact person would be for this?

[KWKloeber]

Could you fly with it as is, and change it with the CG yourself later and save the agent bucks? 

That's what I love about many brokers and agents -- no scruples -- give us a bad name oftentimes.

-k

[Breakin Away]

I am going to take my time with this. It needs to be fixed before renewal. USCG rep was pushing me to do it before things get too busy in the spring.

There are a lot of moving parts  to come together, so it's going to be a pain. One key part is getting the mortgage company's consent to make changes. If they demand that I use the same agent I will be really upset. I've been very unsatisfied with her service.

[Stu Jackson]

One key part is getting the mortgage company's consent to make changes. If they demand that I use the same agent I will be really upset. I've been very unsatisfied with her service.

Don't blame you at all.  One approach could be to do it yourself, as meticulous and step-by-step as possible (as we know you will), and then send it to the mortgage company and to her, saying you're expecting their approval at no cost to you (or at least a sharply discounted price).  She didn't simply not find out about the boat, but by doing what she did, she got it very, very wrong.

Good luck.

[lazybone]

Its been many years since I first received my Captains License (and it could be different now) but the minimum tonnage they endorsed was 25.  25 tons of storage capacity is a good sized boat.