Head Plumbing

[Bruce & Sandi L]

I bought hull #203 in Mexico last winter. The former owner had removed the holding tank, pump, and most of the plumbing. I have a new tank, and the diagram of the origonial plumbing, but I have nothing That shows  the sizes and lengths of the hoses. Does anyone have that data handy?

Thanks, Bruce (Bugsy) Landolt
EZYDUZIT

[SteveLyle]

The hoses are std 1 1/2" sanitation hose - get the most odor resistant hose you can afford.  I don't recall the lengths, but I replaced my hoses this past spring and my recollection is that I bought 13' of hose total (head to holding tank, holding tank to pump out). 

[Stu Jackson]

Bugsy

Congratulations on another "Good Old Boat" purchase.  I recommend that you go to the homepage of this 'site (www.c34.org) and familiarize yourself with the FAQ section (left hand side of the page, index).  Those items cover lots of material for the older boats.  Also check out Projects (the earlier ones).

For your head question, go to the same index, manuals: http://www.c34.org/manuals/index.htm.  There should be a plan picture of the boat with the plumbing lines.  Since the boat is 34 feet long, you can scale off the distances for the hoses.

You have a choice of heads.  Jabsco and Groco su*k.  Raritan PHII are highly recommended by Peggie Hall.  Go to www.catalinaowners.com and consider buying her book (The Head Mistress) http://shop.catalinaowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=20&group=327.  We have a Wilcox Crittendon Head Mate and are pleased with it (just replaced in-kind).

As Steve said the outlet is 1 1/2 inch.  The other hoses are 3/4.  See: http://www.pyacht.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/h-wilcox_crittenden_headmate.htm?L+scstore+lsjy4767ffabe1ab+1131325447.  Don't forget the vented loop on the hose between the pump and the bowl (NOT th eintake line from the through hull).

As a member of the C34IA, lots of the FAQ and Projects material is already on the CD-ROM we sent you when you joined.

[Ron Hill]

Bugsy : As Steve mentioned buy the expensive (white) 1 1/2" sanitary hose - you won't ever regret it in the future!!!

If you're going to reinstall the holding tank system, then I'd consider also reinstalling a Macerator pump.  
Don't know where you are cruising, but you might also think about a type 1 head like an Electrosan (sp?).

You'll have to get all of the pieces that you want to install and put "the puzzle" together by cutting the hose sections as needed.  That hose is very stiff, but some HOT water or a heat gun helps soften it.  Good luck  

[Steve Hansen]

I plan to change out the head hoses on "Georgia Peach" when the weather is just a bit cooler. Yesterday, I measured out about 14 feet of 1 1/2" sanitation hose with a little extra included. I am going to order from Aussieglobe http://www.aussieglobe.com/avs96.htm and I think this was the one recommended by Peggy Hall "Head Mistress". I envy you having a dry tank to work with, as I search for the motivation to remove my hoses and deal with the drainage of "head fluids" Also I measured 2 feet of 1 inch hose from macerator to seacock. Good Luck!

Steve

[Ron Hill]

Steve : Maybe Bugsy will put a cutoff in between the holding tank and the macerator.  Wish that Catalina had done that.  Right now there's no room with the factory installation, but on a new installation like Bugsy's - there could be.  A thought.   

[Jeff Kaplan]

steve, bugsy, i totally replaced the sanitation system on #219 end of last season and ordered 20' of 1 1/2" hose from aussie. and used all of it. got new holding tank from catalina and i must say, removing the old hoses and the old tank was quite a treat. the hose from the masorator to the thru hull doesn't go straight across, you must form a high loop using a 1" vented loop as per peggy hall. i think i used about 5 or 6'. also use at least 3/4" hose for the vent line, use sanitation hose for this too not just regular vent hose. ron is right about using heat to soften the hose prior to install as the white hose is very stiff. i also used k-y jelly on hose to help get on fittings, which by the way,don't use regular barbed fittings, use the smooth ones made by shields for easiest install. double clamp everything. good luck and wear gloves as you will see, plenty left in tank...jeff kaplan

[Jeff Kaplan]

bugsy, went to boat and measured hose lengths for you. they  are approxomite but close. i have a y valve so i can discharge thru the thru hull, pump into tank or deck pump out. the lenght from the head to the vented loop is about 4'. from the vented loop to the y is 20", from the y to the thru hull is 16". from the y to the tank is about 74",  from the tank to the deck fitting is about 5" and from the tank to the masorator is 6". as stated in my last post, from the masorator to the thru hull is about 5 or 6' forming a vented loop, 1" hose. if you order the tank from catalina you will get the correct one, same one used since 1986. the y valve and all fittings  can be bought at any marine store. follow steve's and mine suggestion and get the 1 1/2" sanitation, white,hose from aussie ind. much cheaper but remember to use shields smooth fittings for easier install. heat up ends before putting on fittings and use a little k-y jelly to help.good luck...jeff kaplan

[Bruce & Sandi L]

Wow, thanks to you all for your responses, and especally to you Jeff. Going to the boat with the tape was behond the call. I need to study it all again and make sure I get all the fittings I need. I will definitly order the aussie hose. I already have the macerator pump on the way. Several things suggested I would not have thought of, and I will use them all. So, in the "end" I should be able to relieve myself.  Now if I just knew how to sail the darn thing. Any advice? 

[Ron Hill]

Bugsy asked me "Why a cut off inbetween the masreator and the holding tank.  Here's the answer that I sent him for all to see:

Bugsy : Maserator pumps notoriously jam and to clear it you'll have to remove it. You might even have to replace the blades.  That usually happens when the holding tank is partially full.  If you have a cutoff, then all you have to do is cut off the holding tank and remove the pump without a MESS!!

Here are a few other holding tank tips:
1. NO toilet tissue in the holding tank.  Put the used tissue in a "baggy" and dispose of it with your garbage.  The tissue (yes, even marine grade) will tend to clog the tank!!
2. If the maserator jams, try to unjam it by running it back-wards for a moment reversing the + & - wires.  Then rewire it back and try it again!!   

This is stuff that I published in the Mainsheet tech notes!!   

[Bruce & Sandi L]

Thanks Ron, that sure answered that question. Maybe this winter I will have time to learn how to use the tech notes without spending half a day trying to find what I'm looking for. Meantime, this is really helpful.

[Jim Brener]

There has been much written about head plumbing including these posts.  Several year ago I replaced all the hoses with top grade samitation hose including the vent line.  I also installed a filter on the vent line.  My problem is that there is a "holding tank" odor when you open the port compartments under the settee. It is not the odor of raw sewage nor is it the odor that comes out the vent and stinks up the raft.  It is most strong around the holding tank and  when you open the next forward port compartment and to a lesser extent in the hanging locker.  All hoses are clamped tight and I only use fresh water in the head.  The odor is not usually stronger when the head is pumped. It not readly noticed when the boards over the bilge are removed.  When you enter the boat after being closed up you notice the odor the most.  As it airs you only smell it when you are near the nav station or remove a bottom or back  cushion

As a last resort I am considering replaciing the 1987 vintage black plastic holding tank as perhaps the odor is coming from and thru the tank but before going to all that unpleasent work, has anyone else experienced this problem and if they replaced the tank, diid that resolve the problem.

As always, thanks for your thoughts.

[Jeff Kaplan]

as stated in the last posts, the stench in my boat was such that if i didn't fix the problem, my wife would no longer go on the boat. i replaced everything. get a new tank from catalina and be done with it. also the vent line should be sanitation type also and at least 3/4". there is a product on the market called k.o., kills odor, made by raritan to be put into the hold. tank via head flush. really works. also can be mixed with water and used as a disinfectant thru out the boat to get rid of smells. it worked. good luck...jeff kaplan

[Ed Shankle]

I'd ditch the in line filter. I tried it for a couple of years, but didn't notice any difference. I did find that it collected some water that runs down from the stancion vent. This water just adds to the ventilation resistence and aroma.
I find that the KO product works reasonably well, but the key is getting air into the holding tank, as the anerobic bugs are what make the stink. My unscientific logic, therefore, is that unless you have a pump to force air through the filter, it is just adds to the resistence.
I think using the head reguarly is a key, as it forces air into the tank to help the KO aerobic bugs be dominant (they don't stink).

Ed

[Jon Schneider]

Here's something that even Peggy Hall doesn't know about to cure the odor around the holding tank in the settee: place a bunch of eucalyptus stems on top of the holding tank.  Replace them ever month for a few months; thereafter every three to six months. You wife will return to the boat (mine did).