Fuel Pump ????

[RON SCHERER]

After searching this site and digesting all kinds of good stuff I have this question??? When do you know your fuel pump is done for??? What are the symptoms? Can someone tell me how a healthy fuel pump should sound from the time you turn it on till the time you turn the engine off. Im really starting to have a short fuse with the fuel says. on my boat if you know what I mean? Im hoping from what I hear back from some of you my problem is the fuel pump. Thanks in advance to all that respond. Ron

[SteveLyle]

Turn the key on, you should hear a 'ticking' sound, about once per second, or a bit faster.  Open the bleed screw a bit at the fuel injector and the rate should pick up.

The fuel pump is pretty simple, there's not much that can go wrong with it.  What makes you think yours is bad?

[RON SCHERER]

Steve---Thanks for getting bk to me. After problems on our trip up the coast and over to Catalina I called my mechanic which should be me but we live 6 hrs from the boat and I really want to sail the boat when we go to her not work on it if you know what I mean? The pump starts with the fast ticking and then quits altogether unless I tap on the side of it and then it ticks a few ticks and quits again which explains why the engine would not stay running at slow speeds on our trip I guess. It cruised ok but that was because of vibrations keeping it going. Just as we made the turn into our slip on the way home it stopped and this time would not start at all. Thank God it was home now. Next morning would not start either. This is when we found no gas in the line to the engine and also the ticking was not normal. Mechanic said the pump needs replacing and thats where it was left. What do you think???

[Ron Hill]

Ron : If you need to "tap" the side of the pump to make it "tick", you need to replace the pump!!  

There's a ton of stuff that I've written on both this site and in the Mainsheet tech notes on the NAPA auto parts pump # of the replacement or substitute pump.  
BTW the engine will run with out the electric fuel pump as the tank is higher than the engine.  So if you're having fuel problems it could also be something else in addition to the fuel pump.    

[Stu Jackson]

Ron

The Napa part # is at: http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1328&highlight=napa

Please note that the url references on that post are to the old infopop 'site that we no longer use.

The BEST way to get good search results on "fuel pump" is to search on NAPA.  Lots of information and good esperiences on those hits.  I have found that the search engine does better on single words.

[RON SCHERER]

Thanks fellows for the help. one last ? If you were going to buy a fuel pump today for a 1987 boat what would you buy??? Just wondering if someone has a better mouse trap or fuel pump in this case. Also is it imperative to rout the gas from the tank to the racor and then through the fuel pump. For some reason I dont think my boat is plumbed that way. Sure wish I lived closer to her so I could run down and see for myself. Thanks---Ron

[SteveLyle]

Ron,

If not imperative, it's how Racor and Catalina recommend, plus it's common sense.  There's an internal screen on the fuel pump, so if it gets unfiltered fuel, it can clog, and then not pump anything.  It takes a heck of a lot more junk to clog a Racor.  Somebody at Catalina wasn't thinking for the first few years of production - they've since changed the sequence.

I'd get the latest version of the stock pump.  Get a spare if you're paranoid (I tend to be), they're not expensive in boat terms.

[Ron Hill]

Ron : If you only read a fraction of that TON of stuff that's written on electric fuel pumps you'll get the same answers that Stu and Steve has given you + all of your other questions and more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

[Stu Jackson]

Ron S

Ron H is right.  The reference I gave you and the search I recommended explains that the newer fuel pump by Napa is better.  Why go backwards in technology?  You can always get the old Facet pump with its mechanical operation and magnet, or the new one as described.

I had a replacement Facet left on board by the old owner.  When I replaced the pump, which died without warning (LISTEN FOR THE CLICKING! if it's not there, the pump's dead!), I redid the hoses.  All it takes is a little length of extra fuel hose and a barb with hose clamps.

[RON SCHERER]

Thanks to all of you who replied. Here's my plan of action. First, re-rout the line to go from the tank to the racor. From the racor to the pump which I will buy new. Napa 610-1051 model #. After that I'm going across the bay and have the fuel polished and hopefully they will get the stuff out of the tank at the same time. Do you fellows recommend this procedure??? or take the tank back to Phx. with me and acetone it at home. Let me know if you think this will end my problems Ive had for some time now. My better half is starting to put the pressure on me to get this situation fixed or ---- the boat and I sure don't want that. Thanks to everyone. Ron

[Ron Hill]

Ron : If you want to waste $$$ on polishing fuel and putting it back into a dirty tank - go right ahead!!!!  
I myself, would remove the tank and clean the inside.  Your mention of acetone means that you must have read my article.  Not that hard to do and the rewards (of CLEAN fuel for a couple of years) are great!!!  

[RON SCHERER]

Ron---Thanks for your help. I agree the tank has to come out and be cleaned properly. The boat is in San Diego and I live in Phx. Az. My ? is how much time will be spent on taking out the tank cleaning  and putting back into the boat. I will use up a whole trip and 1/2 of another one doing this job myself OR have my mechanic do this at $70.00 an hr. BUT when I arrive next time over the job will be done and I raise the main sail. Know what I mean. I guess my ? is what can I expect to pay my man @ his hrly. rate to do the job???? Our time is very precious on our boat and the less time I spend doing these things the more time we spend sailing her. Thanks again---Ron

[Stu Jackson]

Ron S

I hear your pain.  It has to be difficult to be so far from your boat.  I must admit that I live 15 minutes away from our boat, and, some days, that's too far for me.

The issues you are facing are the same for all of us: time, distance, and space: even Einstein had trouble with these three things!!!

You wrote: "Our time is very precious on our boat and the less time I spend doing these things the more time we spend sailing her."

Thats's true for all of us.  But I believe that the MORE time you "spend doing these things" the safer you'll be.  Your boat is NOT an automobile that can simply "be sent to the shop for repair."

From my perspective, you have a conflict that really needs to be resolved, and I don't think we can help you out with that issue here on this website.  $70 per hour is a VERY good deal for west coats mechanics - assuming they're qualified, and how do you determine that? - SO you need to be there to see what's going on, or be VERY specific in your instructions.  And it seems that you are still working on figuring out that end of the deal.

I suggest that you may want to reconsider what your goal is.  I don't think you can continue to keep your travel AND boat work time to a minimum.  One's gotta go.  For pure safety reasons, you need to spend the time on the boat and trace things out and learn about them, unless you're willing to depend on your "unseen" mechanic (which makes YOUR boat a "rental" boat, to you).

You may have to consider spending time on your "vacation" and switching it to "boat work week."    

Some of us have been known to have actually learned to enjoy that experience.

[RON SCHERER]

Stu---I agree with a lot of things you said BUT we go from Phx. to S. D. to sail and motor our boat. We get to her one long wk.end a month. You may have missed my point on this. IF I lived 15 min. from our boat I would probably never call a mechanic because I do enjoy the tinkering and learning about the sys. on her and how they work. My question on the tank is how long will it take me from start to finish to do the job? Sounds to me like I may have to ck. for leaks after the cleaning etc. etc. Bottom line is I may want to pay someone to do this for me who has the facility to do the work or is this something I can do on the dock (acetone, ck. leaks etc.) For some reason I dont think so. This is why I am figuring on, if I do the job, taking the tank out on our next trip over and re-installing the next tiime. Before I let you go. I will buy your ticket down to S. D. if you will do the job for me. You can stay on the boat. What do you think????? Thanks Buddy--     Ron

[SteveLyle]

Ron,

If you're going to pay someone to do the work, then I would suggest that you modify the approach - have them totally replace the tank.  If you pay them to clean it, you'll never know if it got clean or not, or how clean.  If you pay them to replace it, you'll know, and it'll be clean by default.  A new tank is reportedly in the $250 range, and it comes with a new fuel guage sender and fittings.  It also takes fear of leaking out of the equation.  It's a relatively simple job as well, and it's been the approach (vs cleaning) for several people dealing with a dirty tank/fuel.  I'm with Ron - polishing the fuel is a waste of time - since it's just going back into a dirty tank.

Depending on the age of your boat, you may or may not need adapter fittings - Catalina apparently changed the fitting sizes over the years.  Not a big deal.

Speaking of which - what is your build year/sail #?  If I was in your position (a LONG way from the boat) I'd go with a new/practically new boat, or invest in a major keel to masthead refit, or resign myself to spending the first few years worth of trips to the boat working on it.  In my experience, I'm working on the boat about as much, maybe a bit more, than I sail it.  Not all of that is maintenance, but there's no getting around the fact that it's a complex mechanical beast living in a harsh environment.  Maintenance on an older boat is a bit like painting the Golden Gate Bridge - it's never done.

Regards,
Steve