Jib size

[tstrand]

We recently bought a new 125% genoa from Ullman Sails in Ventura, which I'm very happy with. Gary Swensen has designed many of the stock Catalina sails, so he knows the boats well.

We were looking for something smaller than the stock 155% that came with the boat, and I would still like something smaller, like a true working jib (<100%). Our sailmaker determined that the smallest headsail that would lead properly to our existing genoa car tracks is the 125%.

I notice that a few folks on this board have mentioned flying smaller headsails, down to 85%. I'm curious how that works - did you add more genoa track forward of the existing, or go with a high clew? I considered adding more track but it would have to go outside the chainplates, or possibly on the cabin roof, and neither seemed like a great option.

Thanks,
Tim

[Stu Jackson]

Tim

Here's a picture of Aquavite in June 2002.  We're using our 85% jib.  Note the high tack off the foredeck.  This is from placing the base of the ProFurl high off the deck with long link plates, which we did deliberately for ease of anchoring, but it sure kills us when we race.  The jib in the picture is our former Leading Edge Sails the PO had purchased with the boat in 1998 (not a Catalina OEM) 110% that was cut down because the original sunbrella material had deteriorated - we couldn't get the jib down with our old CDI furling system and had to wait until we got the boat bucks together for new standing rigging and the ProFurl.  The jib sheets go to the original fairlead track which starts between the fixed portlights, and seems to work fine.  Our 110% (purchased used, also not a Catalina sail) also sets reasonably well.  We have midships cleats at the forward end of each track, so we do miss the one forward-most track hole for the jib fairlead.  Seems that you should be able to work around the standard track with your sail maker, although your idea about a high clew appears necessary.  There are advantages to a high clew - visibility, anchoring, etc.  The windier it gets the more comfortable I feel being able to see under the jib.  Many of our colleagues here sail (race) regularly with 130% jibs, but reduce sail size occasionally for cruising and higher wind conditions.  I'm sure they'll chime in with other ideas.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Tim,

The size of the fore sail can be managed by adjusting clew height if you don't want to add additional track or dedicated blocks forward.  If you are willing to raise the clew (i.e., in the style of a traditional "lapper") you can make as small a headsail as you like.  The limiting factor becomes how high above the deck the clew is, i.e., your ability to reach up to the clew.  By raising the foot of the sail, you diminish it's area.  Like Stu says, not efficient from a racing standpoint.  On the other hand, you greatly improve visibility forward, and the foredeck is a more pleasant pace for lounging when flying the sail.  If you intend to keep the foot as close as possible to the deck, then 125% sounds like a reasonable number with the stock track.  Our winter headsail is a 100% with the clew about seven feet above the top of the deck.  Since we didn't want to add track forward, we arrived at the size by figuring out how high my wife could reach when standing on the coach roof and then designing the sail from that point.

Cheers,

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Tim

Here' one with our 110 up.  In the background to the right, you can see Dave Davis' #707 flying a much nicer 130, lower to the deck - good comparisons.

[tstrand]

Thanks for the responses and pictures. A high-clewed 85% similar to Stu's is about what I had in mind. Stu, I'm curious what wind range you've found your 85 covers? I'd say our 125% is too much at about 25 knots true, although we haven't had it long enough to have a good feel for it.

Tim

[Stu Jackson]

Tim

The first picture was taken with the apparent wind at 25 and building, heading northwest across the Golden Gate about a half mile east of the GG Bridge.  Winds built some more as we got further north.  I didn't do the math on the true wind, but we were close reaching at 6, with the main single reefed.  

Two weeks ago we had our 110 and a single reefed main out in a race where it was blowing 25 true and gusting, but we do strange things when racing.  

Just keep in mind: It's not what the jib will do in high winds, it's how much you reef your mainsail.  The question is not how much wind the 85 or any other jib will handle - and you can sail on just a jib in really high winds.  I've discussed this before, since our boats are built to use the jib as the driving force.  Try sailing on just a jib, then just the main in the same winds, uphill, and you'll see the difference.  

As far as wind ranges go, I use the 85 all summer and the 110 (our "BIG" sail) all winter except when racing.  Winter's less windy here.  If the wind was light and all I had was the 85, it'd keep the boat moving.  I don't use the furling gear to reef, I change sails for the seasons, and like the convenience of not having to hank.

Also, in our neck of the woods, the winds usually build all day, so they start out light and get heavier, so we sail in cruising mode, with something smaller to start off with.  We do not have the changes in wind direction and speed that most other venues have on a daily basis, rarely thunderstorms, big gusts after no wind, etc.  That's something to take into consideration in understanding how I use our two jibs.

The jibs, the 85 or the 110 - if built properly, and with the fair leads moved aft - can take more wind than 25 kts, so will the boat, I may choose to not do so.  

[dave davis]

While on the subject of small jibs, I have a 95% with two battens that I never use, so it is like bran new. It was built as a racing blade with a low clew. I mounted a small track on the cabin top for going to weather giddy-up. IT IS FOR SALE! I will take the first offer over $ 500. It cost lots more. Made by Pineapple Sails in Oakland Calif.