Installing Truecharge 40

[Mike Smith]

I started installing my new Truecharge 40 today under the nav station on the aft bulkhead.  The existing charger is a Sentry of '92 vintage.  When I removed it, I couldn't believe how big and heavy it is compared to the Trucharge.  The Truecharge takes #8 wire, but the Sentry was wired with #4, so I made the first trip of the day to West Marine.  I bought a heavy- duty 4 wire terminal strip and a set of #4 lugs and #8 ring connectors both with 1/4" holes, and 6' of red and black #8. The #4 lugs were just a tad too wide for the terminal strip, so I had to narrow them down a bit with my Dremel tool.  I cut the existing lugs off the old #4 wires and used my hand swage tool and a ratchet wrench to crimp on the new #4 lugs which now fit the terminal strip.  I mounted the terminal strip about 2" off the floor and attached the #4 cables.  I cut and crimped the existing AC line to the Truecharge and mounted it on the bulkhead.  I then measured the distance from the terminal strip to the Truecharge and cut the #8 cable and crimped on the conectors.  I connected the cables from the terminal strip to the Truecharge, re-set circuit breaker on the dock, plugged in the power cord, turned on the main AC, and then turned on the battery charger.  (Did I mention that I cut off all those AC circuits before starting to work?) Nothing exploded and there was no smoke, so tomorrow I'll check the voltage see how the new Truecharge performs!

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

And you had ANY batteries left after 12 years with that fat old piece of metal that you lugged around all this time?

You'll be amazed with your new charger.

PS  Mike, thanks so much for all your work and helping new owners find the links to subjects on the website.

[Mike Smith]

No joy.  When I turned the Trucharge on, it went through an initialization sequence, then the "Ready" and "Charging" lights started blinking on and off at about a 1 second interval.  Nothing else happened, not event the fan came on.  Today the two lights are still blinking - batteries are not charged.   Output voltage at the charger is 10.17 on each lead.  Voltage at the batteries is 10.17.  The only load on the system is the bilge pump.  I am charging two banks of two each Trojan T105 6V batteries wired in series. Even with the breaker turned off and the shore power cord disconnected, the lights still blink on and off.   The troubleshooting guide doesn't show this sequence of indicators. Any idea about what is going on?

Mike

[Kyle Ewing]

10.7 volts seems pretty low. Isn't a 12 volt battery considered completely discharged at eleven-something volts?

I looked at Xantrex's on-line manual (my paper manual is on the boat) at http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/463/docserve.asp and page 4-4 lists a symptom caused by dead or damaged battery or faulty cabling: "Indicator lights continue to blink when charger connected to battery. Charging indicator light does not turn on continuously."

On mine it takes several seconds to a minute for the indicator lights to dim once I turn off shore power. I'm charging the same batteries you are, four Trojan T105's in two banks.

Kyle Ewing
Donnybrook #1010
Belmont Harbor, Chicago

[Mike Vaccaro]

Mike,

Assume that your old charger was inoperative--hence the low voltage in the batteries?  The most obvious culprit would be any wiring that you replaced when mounting the new charger.  If properly wired, your new charger should recharge the batteries (assuming that it is working properly--not always the case, even brand new out of the box!).  

If the continuity is good and the batteries have been drained for a bit, you might consider removing them and taking them to a battery shop.  The shop will be able to determine if the battery can be salvaged (perhaps by equalization) or is a candidate for replacement.

Any lead acid battery older than two years is suspect, especially if your old charger was of the ferro resonant variety.  In all likelihood, an equalization will get them back up to speed.  Your new charger may have an equalization mode.  If it does and you wish to try it on board, be sure to follow the instructions since water will be loss and the batteries will gas (producing explosive hydrogen in the process).  Additionally, you'll need to ensure that the battery bank is isolated from the DC bus, since electronics can be damaged by the equalization voltage (as high as 16 volts).  

Any good battery shop will help you trouble shoot your cells before selling you new ones!

One other option would be to disconnect your batteries and use an automotive type trickle charger on the boat.  Might be worth a shot before you lug your batteries to a shop.  Be sure to check the directions on the charger--if it is designed for a 12-volt battery, you'll need to use it on two T-105's wired in sequence.  The Trojan website has a reasonable FAQ section with charger specs for 6 volt batteries.

[Mike Smith]

Vac -

The Sentry charger was "working" (as in humming), but the batteries were not holding a charge.  Each bank contains two T105s wired in series.  I assume I will need new batteries since these are about two+ years old, and as you say, suspect.  I had sorta planned on buying new ones anyway.

I e-mailed the dealer and he says:

"I have found this indication to be a result of high resistive electrical conditions on the DC side (your batteries, cabling, & connections). Electronic battery chargers MUST have near perfect, clean, & tight connections with near zero resistance. Make sure your charger negative is connected directly to the battery negative & both banks have a common low resistance Ground. (Both battery bank negatives tied together. I would also use 6 gauge wire. If you are in doubt about the charger you could disconnect your boats batteries & connect a 12V car or marine battery directly to the charger, (remember , clean, tight connections) Maybe your old charger was trying to tell you something? Steve"

Do you agree about running charger negative to battery negative terminals and not to ground?

I'll hook up a spare 12V battery to the charger this evening and see if it works properly.

Thanks for your input,
Mike

[Mike Vaccaro]

Mike,

Certainly press with trying a trickle charge--just be sure to have the batteries hooked in series if the charger is designed for a 12 volt battery.  Best if you can monitor the charge as it takes place (most trickle chargers have some sort of display indicating output and state of charge).

Agree that the Truecharge connection needs to go DIRECTLY to the battery per the instructions (dedicated wire).  The battery should then be tied to the ground/engine via a separate wire or wires.  

Although suspect, think that if you are still having trouble after you've tried a trickle charge and after you've run a dedicated ground to the new charger, your best bet is to take the batteries to a shop (preferably someone familar with golf cart batteries).  Heck, a local golf course may have just what you need in their maintenance shed!

Keep us posted.

Cheers,

Vac

[Mike Smith]

Vac -

Good to see your valued opinion on taking a dedicated negative lead to the bank(s), then ground. The  schematics I have seen take it to ground immediately.  

I live just off the Tiger Point golf course, which now resembles a large pasture, sans bovines, and the shop, clubhouse, and maintenance shed are all closed until next fall due to our friend Ivan!  

If the spare battery tests out OK, and the problem is the batteries and not the charger, I'll order four new ones tomorrow and then worry about possibly salvaging the old ones later.

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike

The Xantrex instructions, referenced above via the web, essentially show what I call a negative distribution post (NDP).  They show it in their installation picture(s) as going to a kind of strip.  The negative wires from all of our batteries on Aquavite are connected to a Power Post Plus and then a separate ground wire runs back to the engine as a ground.  Our inverter/charger negative is also tacked onto that Power Post.  Just think of it as a negative distribution point (or strip).  As long as the ground wire from that NDP is large enough going back to the engine, the post or strip is essentially the same negative, whether the charger's negative is physically connected at the post or strip near the batteries, or if your run it all the way back separately to the engine.  Our post is under the galley sink by the HW heater on our Mark I.  I have the Power Post Plus because I use the smaller connections on its base for the bilge pump and stereo negatives.

Good luck with the batteries.  Calder's has something about trying to bring dead batteries back to life - give him a try.  I might have mentioned that in my reply to your earlier post on your situation.

[Mike Smith]

Thanks, Stu -

I think that my entire DC electrical system has been "circling the drain" for about a year now due mostly to the old Sentry charger slowly dying and the lack of power at the dock for properly maintaining the batteries for such a long period of time.  I've got a birthday coming up, and some extra bucks from our hurricane insurance, so I think I'm going to treat myself to a set of brand new, fully charged T105s to go with my new Truecharge 40.  "Life's too Short To Drink Bad Wine".  Then on to complete the electrical upgrade as funds allow.  Spring is just around the corner down here and we are itching to spend some time away on the hook.  Thanks for all your help.

Mike

PS I just received my new Perkins M30 engine instrument panel w/new instruments from Seward, and boy is it pretty!

[Mike Smith]

Guys-

This is becoming very frustrating.  I bought 4 new Trojan T105's yesterday.  Instead of installing them in the battery box as a test of my wiring system and charger, I wired two of them in series and measured the voltage at 12.75VDC.  I disconnected all four leads from the charger and then I re-connected only a ground and a postive lead to the two new batteries in series with with new cables.  I turned on the charger and the same indication appeared.  Just a one-second blinking of the "Ready" and "Charging" lights.  I talked to the Xantrex people and they said the charger was defective - return it to the dealer.  So, I did, and asked for a refund.  

This morning I went to West Marine and bought a new TrueCharge 40.  I took it to Breezer and swapped out the "defective" charger for the new one.  So now, I have new batteries, new cables, and a new charger.  The two new batteries are connected in series directly to the charger through a ground and a postive lead, not through Breezer's wiring.  I turn on the battery charger breaker - and the same thing happens!  The new charger goes through a short initiation sequence, then all other lights go out and the "Ready" and "Charging" lights start blinking!

I drove over the the Styx River pistol range and went through two boxes of Winchester .38s, but it didn't make me feel any better.

If anyone has any idea about what is going wrong, I would sure appreciate any advice!

Mike

[Ted Pounds]

Mike,

This is a tough one.     How's your AC going into the charger?  You might put a voltmeter on the AC and make sure it's good 110 voltage.  Do you have clean, new wires from charger to battery?  It's unlikely you got two bad chargers in a row, but it's not impossible.  I assume you've double checked all the connections and settings.   Beyond that the only thing I can suggest is give the Xantrex folks another call.  Good luck.

[Roc]

Dumb question, but sometimes the obvious is what bites us.....I have the same charger, and there are switches you need to set.  One for type of battery, one for temperature and one for the type of charge.  Are all those set according to your requirements??

[Mike Smith]

Ted -

Dockside 30A power was completely re-wired after Ivan by a company that has done a lot of work for me.  DC Positive lead is fused with a 50A Blue Seas fuse.  All AC circuits are apparantly functioning OK.  The only thing I can think of is that the unit functions OK and then blows an internal fuse.  Maybe Jim Moe can help!

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike

Dagnabbit!!!

Jim Moe, as some may know, doesn't usually hang on this board, so I've emailed him the thread.  He's kinda in between trips now, but may have time to get to you directly.

Another try at the obvious:  have you taken the charger home, with two of your batteries or another one you may have lurking in your garage, and tried it there?

Know you dock power was redone, but is it trusty?

Or have you been so zapped in the last year with "weather events" that all your power has been transmorfigized into 240 volts?  or less....?

Then there's the return to West Marine: "Oh, no, here comes that guy with the broken charger again..."    

Good luck, keep in touch.