Replacing Standing Rigging

[ajvh]

In the May 2004 Mainsheet, on p 64 Catalina recommends replacing (underlined) all the standing rigging on boats over 15 years old.

I asked a friend who is a marine surveyor and he recommends replacing the standing rigging after 10 years if the boat is used offshore and 15 years otherwise. He also said the chainplates should also be replaced.He showed me one that had failed (not from a Catalina).

Has everyone on this board who has a Catalina older than 1989 replaced their standing rigging? If not, how does one assure that it is ok? THe surveyor also said that there is some colored compound that one can paint onto the fittings to reveal cracks or stress. He says surveyors don't use it as it can stain the deck if it drips.

[dave davis]

Funny you should be asking about replacing the standing rigging. My boat is a 88 model and I am in the process of getting a few estimates from the local rigging shops. At this time, I have not seen the May issue of the Mainsheet. It takes much longer for those ponies to arrive.
I have not seen any wire breakage or turnbuckle cracks. I have not tried to use dye/check or anything other than eyeballing the wire or the turnbuckles. When I had the chainplates repacked two years ago  they were examined closely. Since we have rather strong winds in the San Francisco Bay and out the gate, I just made a gut feeling decision that a replacement is due.
So far, it looks like $1800 for all the wire( type 316 SS) and turn/b(chrome plates bronze). The labor is estimated at 10-12 hours. I was not sure when the CY changed from type304 to 316 but Kent Nelson (C34 Tachman) said about ten years ago. Although 316 is not quite as strong as 304, it will have less corrosion. They stayed with the same wire size which is 5/16 for the uppers and the fore and aft.
Good Luck, Dave

[Stu Jackson]

Tony

I recommend that you start here:

http://c34.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=search&s=329609511&reqWords=standing+rigging

Should be a good start for you.  Any questions, let us know.

Stu

[Mike Lofstrom]

As Stu suggested, there is a bunch of information on this website regarding rigging.  I think the chainplates on the C34 are pretty robust, but you might want to look at the stem fitting on your boat closely.  When I bought Cat Tales, my surveyor noticed a crack in the stem fitting where it attaches to the gussets that go down to the deck.  Catalina has used a number of configurations of these stem fittings over the years, some with and some without bow rollers.  The one on my boat does not have bow rollers, so there a two gussets welded into the V between the stem band and the deck plate.  When I started looking at the design a little closer, I realized the angle of the stem band does not match the angle to to the top of the mast.  In other words, the tension on the head stay is trying to pull the stem band away from the weld.  If you look up your stem band towards the top of the mast, you will find that it actually points to a spot about 8-10 feet lower than the mast head.  With the welds in tension, they cracked.  I ordered a replacement from catalina, and was amazed that the new part also did not line up with the top of the mast either.  ( I was not able to use the new fitting, because it was really designed for a mark II boat.  The hull shape is just different enough that it won't work).  I had a local shop in alameda make me a new replacement.  The guy in the shop mentioned that he had seen a number of failures in this Catalina part and they had fabricated a bunch of them.  He said the other place to look for cracks is in the fat part of the stem band where the headstay toggle attaches.  On all of the early boats, the stem band is a piece of 1/4 inch stock.  At the top, it is doubled up and welded on all sides, then ground flush.  If you look at it from the side you will see the doubled up part at the top.  Apparently, these things are prone to cracking right at the transition from the thin to thicker part of the stem band.  The crack starts under the stem where you can't see it.  The fact that the stem it welded at the wrong angle doesn't help, because it puts this weld in tension.  The later boats use a piece of 3/8 material for the whole stem, so they are much stronger.  At any rate, it would be worth a careful inspection with a mirror and magnifying glass at the time of a rig replacement.  

Mike

[Stu Jackson]

Mike's right.

However, it is also imperative that you check the same alignment for the stern connections to the split backstay.

My surveyor (in 1998 for a 1986 boat) recommended toggles be installed, and when we  re-rigged, we had them installed and everything that doesn't line up has a place to go (stress-wise :)  ).

The toggle fitting goes between the aft chainplates that really do not line up with the backstay plane, and the back stays and main back stay, which goes right up to the tippy-top!

Works like a charm and no leaking from the aft chainplates because they're not stressed out.

Stu

PS

Also check out the connecting bolts on the forestay base in addition to Mike's suggestions.  They're a pain to get to but when you see signs of rust below the fitting and the deck, you can make it go away with FSR or find the real culprit.  Next on MY list!

[rappareems]

Reading this post with interest.  I have been sailing on Lake Ontario for over 30 years and have know only a few boats that have re-rigged and those went to rod rigging for racing purposes.  Do you think that salt v. fresh water is a factor?

[Stu Jackson]

Mark

Salt vs fresh certainly does have an impact, but the difference is generally five vs ten years.  Thirty's really pushing it.

Check, check, check.  Swages, connections to the mast, all over.

I'd say fifteen years,anywhere, is really pushing it.  We went 2002 less 1986.  Do the math.

Is $2 to 3K worth it vs having ???$$$ to repair it if the mast comes down on you?

Stu

[rappareems]

Stu,

Another factor would have to be leaving the mast up year-round I would think.  Like you I have an 86 but the mast has always come off after haul out.  We launch today and I will certainly do a thorough inspection of the rigging.

[Mike Smith]

Ron -

I intend to install toggles (see below) to mitigate any misalignment due to the change in angle of the backstay bridle, but your suggestion makes sense, too.  The backstay bridle angles will change with every adjustment, so the proper chainplate angle would be the median angle, right - neither full on nor full off?

Mike

However, it is also imperative that you check the same alignment for the stern connections to the split backstay.

My surveyor (in 1998 for a 1986 boat) recommended toggles be installed, and when we  re-rigged, we had them installed and everything that doesn't line up has a place to go (stress-wise :)  ).

The toggle fitting goes between the aft chainplates that really do not line up with the backstay plane, and the back stays and main back stay, which goes right up to the tippy-top!

Works like a charm and no leaking from the aft chainplates because they're not stressed out.

Stu

[Stu Jackson]

Here's some additional input from a search (standing rigging)

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1021&highlight=standing+rigging

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=475&highlight=standing+rigging

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=380&highlight=standing+rigging

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=342&highlight=standing+rigging

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=119&highlight=standing+rigging

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=104&highlight=standing+rigging

That's kind of a Table of Contents for Standing Rigging.

[Stu Jackson]

Cross reference to this thread:  

http://www.c34ia.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1660&view=previous

[APACHE]

When you replace the standing rigging, save the old stays.  They will make great new life lines.  Just think, no more trying to keep that vinyl looking white.  All the vinyl really did was to trap the salt underneath anyway.
A Thought.