East River & Hell's Gate

[PaulJacobs]

There is a chance a friend any I will be sailing a 1964 Graves Constellation (29.5 ft LOA, 20.5 ft LWL) that is in sound condition, down the Hudson River, around the Battery, up the East River, through Hell's Gate, and on into Long Island Sound, and thence to Rhode Island, in late April. 

Has anyone on this forum ever done something like that?  Evidently, there is a 3-hour delay between flood tide at the Battery and flood tide at Hell's Gate. How did you time it?  How bad was transiting through Hell's Gate?  Did you encounter much traffic in the narrow portion of the East River between Manhattan and Roosevelt Island?  Notwithstanding the "usual" convention of passing "port-to-port", I understand this is not always true in the East River.  What was your experience?  Obviously, one wants to travel with a favorable flood tide current, but this can sometimes lead to steering issues if the current is very strong (viz. 4-5 knots).  Did you experience any steering issues?

Paul Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK 1.5 # 1068
TR, FK
Wickford, RI

[dfloeter]

You are in for a good ride if the timing is right.  We did this a few years ago both ways and hit 12.6 SOG just east of Hell Gate.  It was a fun ride.   We did not experience any excessive turbulence in Hell Gate and cruised right through both ways but the launch driver at the City Island Yacht Club told us how he and his friends go out here for fun and spin around in circles.   We did not meet much traffic but it is a big river and obeying the regular rules will keep you out of trouble along with using the VHF when in doubt.  If the UN is in session the guard boats will keep you offshore and not too close in. For timing both ways I made sure that we hit max flood at Hell Gate and it went well.   Good luck with the sail and enjoy the scenery.  The CIYC was a great stop with 24 hour launch service for the mooring field that I think cost $25/night with shore facilities included. There is a great Italian restaurant a few blocks west and bus service to anywhere from the island.

[PaulJacobs]

Hi Dieter,
Thanks for your comments.  I am trying to determine how to best take advantage of the tidal currents without incurring dangerous rips in a relatively small, somewhat underpowered sailboat.  When sailing northward from the Battery, how did you time things?  Did you start sailing up the East River exactly at, a 1/2 hour after, or an hour after the start of the flood tide at the Battery? Also, because of all the skyscrapers in Manhattan, was the wind utterly confused, or were you actually able to sail much of the time?
Thanks for any and all inputs.  I do NOT want this to end badly.

By the way, my step-son lives in Petoskey, MI, and is a ship-right for Irish Boatworks, in Harbor Springs, MI not far from Traverse City.

Paul Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK1.5, # 1068
Wickford, RI

[dfloeter]

Hi Paul,  Your son works for a great company with a long history up there.   It seems like we passed the Battery a couple hours after slack tide to ride the current northward and to be sure we arrived at Throgs Neck before the turn and trying to hit Hell Gate at the appropriate time.   It's only about 6NM up to Hell Gate and another 6 to Throgs Neck so you will make the trip rather quickly.  The most interesting traffic we saw were the launching and landing sea planes on the river.  There wasn't much wind either way for us so we did motor the whole thing.   On a breezy day I suppose it cuild be a challenge.  For us it turned out to be rather easy and fun to boot and cruising under the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges was a hoot. 

[Noah]

Here is a 2-year-old video when "Sailing Uma" transited Hell's Gate.
https://youtu.be/myn1rNwZJ38

[Holger Dieske]

... verry cool to see, speciality for me as a european 

Holger

[oldcatsailor]

I do this every year for last ten, two hours after tide at the
battery the trip up is not as fast as the trip down , make
sure You keep Roosevelt's island to starboard trip up
river Manhattan side the right channel has low bridges
not sailboat
Friendly. go between brothers islands. Ciyc great stop
motor sailing is the safest way to transit. Enjoy!
Moody  Blue C34 1990 1.5

[PaulJacobs]

Hi Old Cat,
Thank you very much for your input.  There is nothing quite like direct experience.
 
I do have a few questions.  First, why do you begin from the battery two hours after the start of flood tide there?

It would seem that strategy might reduce the interval of favorable tide after passing the Whitestone & Throgs Neck bridges on the way into Long Island Sound.  On the other hand, one would definitely be getting a nice northward push while in the East River. 

I understand about a sailboat leaving Roosevelt Island to starboard, (i.e., passing to the West of the island), as there is a low bridge to the East of Roosevelt Island. 

You note your preference for motor-sailing on this trip.  I fully agree, but the Graves Constellation does not have an inboard engine.  Rather it has a 9.9 HP Mercury outboard with a 20" shaft positioned in a well just aft of the cockpit.   I suspect that she will therefore be somewhat underpowered, so we definitely want to proceed WITH the current as much as possible, and especially up the East River and past Hell's Gate.

Finally, did you have much of an issue with river traffic?  Obviously, the big ships and barges cannot maneuver easily in a narrow river, so they clearly are the "stand on" vessels.  Did you leave them to port or starboard when proceeding northward in the relatively narrow East River between Manhattan and Roosevelt Island?

Dr. Paul F. Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK1.5 # 1068
Wickford, RI

[oldcatsailor]

When you pass under throgsneck  bridge the current is coming in the
Sound east to west if time right you get there in slack . if you are going
To stop at city island you won't need the current going out as its off to port under the bridge . my first time to the sound was on a 25' sidleman  with 9.5 mid 80's did not time and spent three hours looking
At the UN . the river traffic to watch is Ferry's more now running the river . any barges will be going the same as you.
Fair winds
Moody Blue
Bruce Kelly

[PaulJacobs]

Our current plan is as follows: on day 1 (sometime during a fair weather window in late April) we will sail from Stony Point, NY (about 10 NM north of the Tappan Zee bridge, on the west side of the Hudson River, where the classic 1964 Graves Constellation is currently located), down the Hudson River, under the Tappan Zee bridge, under the George Washington Bridge (near where I was born 83 years ago!), to Liberty Landing, in Jersey City, NJ, directly across from the World Trade Center (34 NM).  After staying in their marina overnight, on the morning of day 2 we will motor-sail, across the Hudson, around the Battery, timing our arrival about 1.5 to 2 hr. (per your input) after the start of north-flowing flood tide, then proceed up the East River, under the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg and Queensboro bridges, staying between Manhattan and Roosevelt Island, through and past Hell's Gate, under the RFK and Triborough bridges, then between the Brother Islands, under the Whitestone & Throgs Neck bridges, into Long Island Sound, to a 2nd marina in Stamford, CT (33 NM).  The 3rd day, we will be sailing from Stamford, CT to a 3rd marina in Branford, CT. (35 NM).  The 4th day sailing from Branford, CT to a 4th marina in Stonington, CT, (37 NM), and finally on the 5th day sailing from Stonington, around Point Judith and up Narragansett Bay, to a slip in Warwick, RI. (41 NM). 

Dr. Paul F. Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 MK 1.5 # 1068
Wickford, RI

[oldcatsailor]

Sounds good , I am on the hard in stony point Minisaconga Y.C.
First year there , other years ,started from cheese quake
Creek Raritan bay sometimes to summer mooring Greenwich ct.
Most Other times stop at c.i.y.c where I'm a member. I make the trip around the middle of may . been to all the stops except your  home port . WILl probably do one day to city island stay over then 2.5 hrs to Greenwich  , Stamford 6 more miles  201-835-6724
Moody Blue 1990 mk1.5   #1064