Anchoring - Is this Safe?

Sailing Amok · July 28, 2020, 01:31:32 PM

[img]Hey sailors, I'm sitting here at a beautiful anchorage in Lake Ontario, and I've got a question. Until today I've been hitching my nylon rode to the cleat in the anchor locker. However, last night I read a post on this forum which seemed to indicate that cleat is likely not sufficiently strong for anchoring. My understanding is this has to do with direction of pull. With the locker cleat, the pull is directional with the bolts, rather than a shear force as is intended with a cleat. So, today I have made fast the rode to a bow cleat, but this seems to be putting great stress against the pullpit, as can be seen in the attached photos. So, what's the consensus, am I doing this wrong? Will I find myself with a trashed stanchion, drifting into the Bay of Quinte?

Ron Hill · July 28, 2020, 02:09:37 PM

Aaron : I would put the bitter end of the rode thru the cleat in the anchor well and tie a stopper knot (figure 8.) Then tie off the rode to that same cleat in the anchor well. I would not put added side strain on the bow pulpit brace/leg.

The side cleat should hold, I just don't like the outside of the pulpit brace and the rode rubbing against it.

A thought

Sailing Amok · July 28, 2020, 02:37:05 PM

Thanks Ron, my concern is based on the notion that you mentioned in the previous topic that the locker cleat may not have a backing plate. https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7872.msg54617.html#msg54617 I will check this at some point, but won't be able to for the next couple weeks at least.

Noah · July 28, 2020, 04:44:39 PM

There is also the option of using a double bridle, lead outside of pulpit to both bow cleats, with a chain hook (for chain rode) or a prusik knot on the rope rode, —thus eliminating the bow roller.

Sailing Amok · July 28, 2020, 05:13:49 PM

Hey Noah, thanks. When scope is sufficient with the 100 feet of chain we use a bridle with a chain hook. Doing the same on the rope, but using a prusik seems like a good idea. Would help distribute the load as well, which can't hurt.

KWKloeber · July 28, 2020, 07:47:33 PM

A/K

I'm wondering why she's riding w/ the rode/hook abeam the centerline? Is that typical for a 34? ( it isn't on my 30.)

After setting the rode length, I typically bring it back outside and under the rail and bend it on the cleat, so the pull is directly on the cleat (and not on my roller - I have a bow sprit extension.) An option?

Ken

Geoffreykwright · July 29, 2020, 07:34:58 AM

I've always use my mooring cleat and not the one in the anchor locker...but I am curious why your anchor-rode makes a sharp right out of the anchor roller? Surely the wind would have the rode directly in front of the boat (on the center-line). The rode looks taught - like you are broadside to the wind but the boat is not turning into the wind. Have you set a stern anchor which is preventing the stern from swinging around?

Jim Hardesty · July 29, 2020, 07:56:58 AM

QuoteSurely the wind would have the rode directly in front of the boat (on the center-line).

Shamrock swings a lot at anchor, and the wind does shift. I've been using the cleat on center in the anchor anchor locker. Never had a problem and it doesn't look like the fiberglass is stressing at the cleat. Has anyone with a MKll had problems and needed to beef-up the cleat backup plate?

Jim

scgunner · July 29, 2020, 07:59:46 AM

Aaron,

It looks like it was setup to tie off the anchor line to the locker cleat, which would give the line a straight run. You can always wrap the bitter end around the dock cleat as a backup. I'm with Ron, that bind on the pulpit would not make me happy.

Stu Jackson · July 29, 2020, 08:43:42 PM

There's a damn good reason for the midline center cleat on our old Mark Is. It's called a fair lead. Two words.

Yes, CY shoulda put three cleats on the bow, two like the Mark IIs and KEPT the centerline cleat.

Not so hard. We followed Ron's advice: add side cleats and continue to USE the center BIG momma.

You're right about shear vs. pull.

Sailing Amok · July 30, 2020, 04:27:39 AM

Quote from: KWKloeber on July 28, 2020, 07:47:33 PM
I'm wondering why she's riding w/ the rode/hook abeam the centerline? Is that typical for a 34? ( it isn't on my 30.)

Good question, I'm really not sure. I believe this is the standard configuration.

Quote from: Geoffreykwright on July 29, 2020, 07:34:58 AM
I've always use my mooring cleat and not the one in the anchor locker...but I am curious why your anchor-rode makes a sharp right out of the anchor roller? Surely the wind would have the rode directly in front of the boat (on the center-line). The rode looks taught - like you are broadside to the wind but the boat is not turning into the wind. Have you set a stern anchor which is preventing the stern from swinging around?

I think I just took the photo as the boat was mid swing. For the most part things pull straight on the rode, but the wind around here changes direction frequently, and we are always swinging a bit. It's not uncommon for the wind in this area to do a 180 around 1am, it's usually very low wind at that time though. Usually...

Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 29, 2020, 08:43:42 PM
You're right about shear vs. pull.

So, would you suggest in this case that I'd be best to use a bridle off the two bow cleats? Also, I wonder if the better off-season modification would be to beef up the anchor locker cleat with a huge back plate (still a pull force), or to install a centreline cleat on the bow?

scgunner · July 30, 2020, 07:42:02 AM

Fairlead is actually one word.

Stu Jackson · July 30, 2020, 09:49:50 AM

Quote from: Sailing Amok on July 30, 2020, 04:27:39 AM>>>>>>>>>>>>
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So, would you suggest in this case that I'd be best to use a bridle off the two bow cleats? Also, I wonder if the better off-season modification would be to beef up the anchor locker cleat with a huge back plate (still a pull force), or to install a centreline cleat on the bow?

One of the better solutions I have come across was offered by Steve Dolling, and it appears in the 101 Topics, Steve's Anchoring 101:

Steve's Anchoring 101

The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

This was our best upgrade.

Unless you're in a heavily restricted, i.e., crowded, anchorage that is only 10 feet deep, this works very well. I really appreciate tips & tricks that save additional effort. And work.

If you can assure yourself that the existing cleat is firmly anchored (pi!) then you've solved the centerline fairlead. It's always good to get a fair lead.

Your boat, your choice.