Holding Tank Disaster

[Analgesic]

Help!  This past Summer my macerator died so I ended the season using the pump out service to fully drain the holding tank (so I thought) and bought a new Shurflo macerator.  When I removed the dead pump from the lower inboard aft corner of the holding tank with some absorbant materials to catch the expected drips, I faced an instant unexpected  horrendous s#%t storm that flooded the bilge, finally halted by the placement of a wooden emergency plug.  I'll spare you the details of the weekend spent on the initial bilge clean up but now I have a tank with an uncertain amount of sewage left, a loose wooden plug and a new macerator pump that is a very tight fit in a deep hard to reach  space.  I was hoping for a week of deep freeze temperatures to harden the remaining tank contents allowing me the luxury of pulling the plug and figuring out the macerator attachment at a leisurely pace but it's late January, we haven't had a sustained cold blast yet and I'm not sure one is coming this year.  I'm looking for any thoughts on how to proceed.  I came up with these ideas  with none seeming great:  1. If the deep freeze comes, pull the plug and screw in the macerator threads into the tank (but it is not obvious that I will be able to rotate the new pump due to it's "wings" for mounting)  2. Buy a 1 1/2" NPT plug, pull the wooden plug and screw on the new one as fast as possible accepting more sewage spill, pump and flush the tank in Spring and start from scratch   3. Leave the wooden plug until I can get to a pump out station after Spring launch and flush the tank thoroughly (but if it falls out prior to that I could have an even bigger spill)  4. Attach a 90 deg elbow (outboard end plugged)  quickly (same as #2)to the tank outlet aiming upward and eventually mount the macerator on the plywood aft support for the tank.
Any guidance/experience is greatly appreciated.  If nothing else, I've provided everyone with  the chance to think "I'm glad it's not me!"
Brian McPhillips

[Indian Falls]

I just went through all this last spring... less the poo storm... but even if there is no spillage the smell is unbearable. 

I wouldn't let things sit there as is through the rest of the winter.  I vote that you get a large shop vac and pump out the tank yourself.  Start at the deck fitting outside.  When no more can be pulled that way, have it ready and running when you pull the wood plug  With any luck there wasn't much in there and most of it went in the bilge already. 

I had no trouble screwing the macerator and all into the fitting going to the tank.   Then you can close the system for winter without fear of the new macerator getting frozen or damaged along with the plastic fittings, tank fittings or possibly crack the tank. You still can leave the macerator off, and just put the 1-1/2 plug in it's place until spring. 

Best of luck!

[scotty]

Is going to a pump-out station out of the question now?  If you could get to one it would sure make it easier.

[frank]

Brian; Not sure of the '88 holding tank setup but if the the top of the tank is accessible now may be the time to install a 4"-5" inspection hatch or at least a 1.5"  female socket with a secure screwed plug that you can insert a pump intake hose through to empty the tank and visually confirm that it is completely emptied.
Good luck!
Frank

[fkoehlmann]

The Admiral and I were just thinking about it, and we'd have to agree with Indian Falls. Get a cheap or old shop vac, and suck it out, bit by bit. Haven't got the disposal part worked out quite. Kind of depends on how much it is and where the boat is. If you're on a cradle, you might find a nearby washroom to flush it down (assuming you only have a bit left). If it turns out the thing is actually full and the pump out was actually messed up, then I hope you're in the water and can get to a pump out, 'cause while getting it out is easy enough, disposing it is going to be the greater issue. IMHO.

[Peggie Hall]

When WILL y'all learn to put a y-valve in the pumpout line instead of a tee fitting, or worse, threading a macerator directly into a tank???  A y-valve allows you to block the flow of waste from the tank when have to service the overboard discharge pump.

But even with just a tee or wye, WHY didn't you pump out AND thoroughly flush out the tank before you disconnected any plumbing???  That would have accomplished two things: 1. The spill would only have been slightly unpleasant water...and 2. There'd be a LOT less of it!   I suspect you also have a blocked tank vent...attempting to rinse out the tank would have let you know that.

As for your ideas for dealing with it...don't even THINK of trying ANY of 'em!

You can't leave the spill in the boat till spring...if it does freeze, it can damage something...whether it does or not the odor will permeate all cushions and soft goods. Use a shop vac to remove spill, then flood the area and suck that out...use a power washer and plenty of detergent and water to clean up the mess...Do NOT USE BLEACH!!!  When it's clean, mop up ALL the excess water.  Buy a gallon of PureAyre http://www.pureayre.com/index.htm and 1-gallon garden pump sprayer (or you can use a trigger sprayer, but your hand is gonna get very tired of squeezing it)...spray EVERY surface, nook and cranny in the affected area. Do not rinse...just let it dry.  That should eliminate all the odor...you'll know when the weather gets warm again. If you do still have any odor, you missed a spot with the PureAyre.

You may need to get some help from the yard to do all that.  If you do, it'll be worth whatever they charge you to get it done.

Once you have cleaned up the mess, leave the rest of the job till you can get to a working pumpout in the spring and can pump out and thoroughly flush out the tank. Then put a short piece of hose on the tank discharge fitting that'll let you install a y-valve and THEN a new maceratorl

[chuck53]

Peggy, if you re-read his post , he already did his clean up and is hoping for a freeze to freeze the contents of the tank so he can pull out the plug and attach his macerator.
Not saying that's the best plan, but it is his plan.

[Analgesic]

To clarify, I thought I had fully pumped out in the Fall.  I assume the vent is functional since every time the head was pumped last Summer the smell of sewer gas in the cockpit was horrendous.  From prior posts, I have already purchased Pure Ayre but haven't used it yet assuming it wouldn't work in the cold (typically highs in 30s-40s these days, 20s overnight) but I'll use it today if Peggy thinks I should.  The Y valve recommended sounds great but it's a very crowded space and I'll have to go look again to see if it will fit.  The challenges I face include the fact that the "yard" where the boat sits on stands is basically a waterfront storage lot with no staff.  Fresh water hoses were all shut off for the season by the time of my spill so my clean-up consisted of getting buckets of salt water, carrying up the ladder, flushing the bilge, hand pumping using my dingy pump back into the bucket and caring to the Port-a-potty and repeating).  Now even the Port-a-potty is gone until March.  I do have electricity and the shop vac sounds like a great idea disconnecting the vent just in case that was the reason for the incomplete pump out.  Cutting a hole in the top of the tank scares me so I'll go with the deck valve. 
Any thoughts on Shop-Vacs?  Lowes has range from $29->$100.  Cheap works for me as long as it's not too weak to lift the sludge. 

[cmainprize]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck, sucks when you think you are doing things right and the plans goes south on ya.  I would rent the biggest shop vac I could get.  Give it a rinse when you are done and give it back.  Check the phone book for a mobile pressure washing company, theu show up with their own water supply (somethimes heated) and long hoses, the use them for heavy trucks all the time.  You might be able to wash and vacum the mesh at the same time. 

Tick Tock, Tick Tock, I would get at this as fast as I could, the mess will only get worse as it sits there.

[efhughes3]

I've got an '88, amd while it is still fairly new to me, I could swear it has a removable inspection port on the top of the tank.

[chuck53]

I've got an "87 and I'm 99.9% sure I do not have an inspection port. 
How hard it is to put one in?  Would I be opening the perverbial can of worms by doing so?

[efhughes3]

I've got an "87 and I'm 99.9% sure I do not have an inspection port. 
How hard it is to put one in?  Would I be opening the perverbial can of worms by doing so?

As long as you cut he hole the proper size, you then drill for the fasteners using the flange as a template. Then you seal the flange well when mounting. If you have to use a shop vac to clean out the tank, to me this is the only way that will work. I dont see how a vac will have enough suction to pull the stuff up through the deck pumpout.

[Peggie Hall]

If you can't get water to the boat, you can't flush the sludge out of the tank (that you should have flushed out last fall!!!)...and if you leave only the sludge, it'll harden into "concrete" that nothing will dissolve that won't also damage the system and tank.  But you can't just leave it till spring 'cuz what's left in the tank can freeze and crack the tank. So the only thing to do now is add about 5 gallons of water to the tank and enough antifreeze to keep it from freezing.

You haven't been able to clean up the mess well enough yet to use PureAyre to get rid of the last of the odor...so take all the cushions off...wrap the mattress in plastic to prevent odor from permeating it and call it done till they turn the water back on in the spring.

Then we'll figure out what to do with your y-valve and your tank vent--which, btw, needs to come out of the rail stanchion and onto a proper thru-hull.

Why would you go with a cheap shop vac? A good one will be a lot easier to clean up than your bilge!

[Analgesic]

I just returned from the boat.  I bought the Lowes 3 HP 6 gal Shop Vac for $46 and it worked great.  The extension wand fit the deck pump out perfectly.  I removed about 3 gallons, then unscrewed the tank vent elbow piece creating about a 1" or less inspection opening and with a flashlight I could see there was nothing deep remaining in the tank.   I hesitate to pour 5 gallons of anything back in as it could lead to my wooden plug falling out and spilling into the bilge again.  If the deep freeze comes, I think I'll just plug it until I can do a very thorough rinse at a pump out station this Spring. 
Thanks for all the helpful advice.  May you never follow in my footsteps!
Brian

[SD Diver]

You could try calling one of the companies that service the port a potties and have them come out to pump it out.  They then could pump in some of the stuff they use in the port a potties and suck it back out again.

Just a thought,

Ralph