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Author Topic: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram  (Read 7126 times)

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WTunnessen

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Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« on: March 21, 2011, 08:54:52 PM »

Since I am in the process of upgrading my electrical system and have been using Jim Moe's approach discussed in the wiki, I wanted to update his original wiring diagram to reflect updated location of the echo charge.

Based on posts/edits that Stu and others have made, its better to not connect the echo charge on the battery switch, which is what is shown on the wiki.

I've edited Jim's original diagram and figured that I would post a "draft" updated Jim Moe wiring diagram for review and comment on the Forum.

If there are any changes that need to be made - I'm happy to make them since I want to know!

If the final updated diagram would be helpful to other to people, maybe someone could post it on the Wiki.

 Note I've attached a low res version and have higher res ones.

- Walt Tunnessen
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Gaulois #579 C34 Tall Rig - CYC West River, MD

Stu Jackson

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 10:59:29 PM »

Walt, nice job.  Very well done.  Thank you.

I would also add that always on loads and solar or other charging input should go to the house bank positive, which, as I've described, should be a PDP (like a Power Post or even a bus bar) rather than the direct connectionn to the actual post on the battery.  Don't put more than one or two items on any given battery post.  They're simply not made for them.

What I suggest you do is edit the wiki (as I have done) with a link to this topic, so that folks who are perusing that can see your good work.

You add to the wiki by signing in with the same un and pw you use for this message board.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

WTunnessen

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 07:19:45 AM »

Thanks for the feedback Stu.  I'll make the edit regarding the additional charging sources & PDP.

W/ Jim design, I've also been wondering if its a good idea (or necessary) to have the shore powered battery charger wired to the starting battery if that battery is also linked to the house battery via the Echo Charger. What do you think?
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Gaulois #579 C34 Tall Rig - CYC West River, MD

mainesail

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 08:13:33 AM »

Thanks for the feedback Stu.  I'll make the edit regarding the additional charging sources & PDP.

W/ Jim design, I've also been wondering if its a good idea (or necessary) to have the shore powered battery charger wired to the starting battery if that battery is also linked to the house battery via the Echo Charger. What do you think?
If you have an Echo Charger remove the charger lead from the start bank.

Also the positive connection to a bank and the negative connection should be opposite each other, farthest away, to force a charge "through" the entire bank. I also agree with Stu about the use of a POS and NEG buss bars. I often use the Blue Sea 2106. These buss bars can be fitted with Blue Sea MRBF fuses as well.



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-Maine Sail
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Ted Pounds

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 08:04:39 AM »

I beg to differ; as long as the jumpers are not undersized it does not make any difference which side you take to ground.
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Ted Pounds
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WTunnessen

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 07:48:19 AM »

I've added the updated wiring diagram to the Tech Wiki.   It includes an number of additional changes / recommendations from the draft posted in this tread.

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Catalina_34_Electrical_System_Upgrade

« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:22:54 PM by Stu Jackson »
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mainesail

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 05:34:39 PM »

I beg to differ; as long as the jumpers are not undersized it does not make any difference which side you take to ground.

Ted,

I don't just make this stuff up. Of course there are "better ways" but I've yet to see anyone other than a massive telecom installation do it that way. Here's some interesting reading..

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Trojan Battery & Lifeline Battery also suggests the procedure / diagram I showed above.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 05:36:33 PM by mainesail »
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Ted Pounds

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 09:05:59 AM »

OK, I ran the numbers myself for simple 2-battery bank and was surprised to get similar current differences from each battery.  :shock:  I even tried for a much smaller load (10amp which is more like what you'd see on a C34) and still got a similar ratio.  So, I have to retract my post  :abd: and admit my WAG was wrong.  Thanks for the very informative link.
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Ted Pounds
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scotty

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 09:33:18 PM »

Thanks Walt.  Electrical systems are my weak point (or at least one of them).  After reading the diagram several times, and reading the other comments, I think I get it.  It seems that the 110 circuits are not in the diagram.  Is there a reason why?
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Scotty

Stu Jackson

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 11:08:29 PM »

It seems that the 110 circuits are not in the diagram.  Is there a reason why?

Yes, Walt did a fine job updating a lot of that material from 2004 and earlier.  Thanks, Walt.

Scotty, the AC is a separate system, and the intent of Jim's original article was to discuss the DC system, that's all, as it said in the introduction in the wiki.

If there are any more questions you may have, please ask away, we're here to help.
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gregbin

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 07:00:25 PM »

I have a question regarding  the wire diagram for Jim Moe's originally diagram. I have use this diagram and my boat looks exactly like it. My question is why was the Echo charger put on its own circuit I would think using the battery cables would keep the voltage hi and I would think that would be better than a 12 gauge wire running from the start battery to the house batteries. one of my concern is having 110 charger on the start battery and on the house batteries with the combiner connecting both circuits with the other method you have the disconnect on the the start battery keep the charger doing its job on the batteries its hooked to.
Am I missing something?
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 08:53:23 AM »

Good point.

The echo charger really isn't on its own "circuit" it just combines the banks when the voltage is above about 13 V, and feeds a maximum of 15 A to the reserve bank.  That's why the smaller #12 wire is OK.

While I'd never noticed this before, the battery charger does NOT have to be connected to both banks, only the house bank, and then the echo charger will serve the reserve bank.

We all might want to re-read Reply #3 above...  I also made note of this on the wiki.

As shown however there really is no problem, since the reserve bank will be getting a charge both from the charger and via the echo charger.

If it was my boat (and I have a combiner with only a single 1-2-B switch), I would remove the B2 wire from the charger to the reserve bank, and let the echo charger do the work for the reserve bank for both alternator and shorepower charging.  
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 09:52:46 AM by Stu Jackson »
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gregbin

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 07:02:11 AM »

What if the start battery is a AGM and the house is lead acid do they charge at the same spec. ?
thanks
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Draft - Updated "Jim Moe" Wiring Diagram
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 09:11:16 AM »

Go to www.balmar.net.  Download, for instance, the MC-614 regulator manual, use the Online Manuals red button, right side.  One of the pages includes the factory settings for a variety of different battery types, with the bulk, absorption, and float voltages.  It's one of best overall charging tables I've seen.

In general, mixing battery types is not preferred.  But based on the voltages, you can make your own "learned" conclusions.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 09:12:33 AM by Stu Jackson »
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"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
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