ST4000 Autopilot ratchetting

[jpaulroberts]

I have a 1987 C-34 with an ST4000. When I bought the boat last year it worked fine for a few weeks then the flux-gate compass could not find it's course in the standby mode. So I stopped using it, and put it on my list of things to deal with in the future. Then this season I started getting a situation where the drive unit on the wheel started giving a ratcheting resistance while I steer, even though the lever was not engaged. I also noted that when I turned the circuit on that it was connected too, it would make some start-up noise, as if it wanted to steer the boat, even though the unit was on standby and not engaged. That would only last a few seconds though. I traced all the wires this weekend and fiddled with things a bit and now the compass works fine. The auto pilot works fine and steers the boat. But even when the clutch lever is not engaged, I get the ratcheting as I steer. It is intermittent. Sometimes the wheel turns smoothly, other times it feels like the drive wheel gears are dragging. Yes, the boat steers fine, but am I grinding teeth in the drive wheel? I am about to take a two week cruise starting Labor Day and I'm wondering if I should just pull the drive unit off the while for now. Or do I leave it and hope for the best. Anybody have any thoughts? Jerry

[Ken Juul]

I'm experiencing the same issues.  Took mine apart thinking I could find the cause and found nothing a miss.  I think it is being caused by the belt getting old and stiff.  There is also some play in the clutch roller.   (not the rolled pin, the whole assembly).  I'm thinking about rigging a loop of light line that will hold the clutch in the off position to help prevent the momentary binding caused by the loose clutch.  It was also getting kind of squeaky when in use.   A good dousing with water stopped most of the squeaking.  Raymarine sells a rebuild kit with the belt and rollers, it's on my list of future projects.  When first turned on, the autopilot will engage for a few seconds, the purpose is to rotate the belt to even out the wear.

[Mike Smith]

I had the same problem as few years ago and solved it by disengaging and re-engaging the clutch.  Later, the clutch finally failed and I had it repaired.  Haven't had a problem since.  This is a indication of a future failure, and if you are going on an extended cruise, it would be best to take care of it in advance.

Mike

[Jim Fitch]

I have the same intermittent resistance problem and mine is brand new this season.  I'm afraid I don't know the solution since I haven't called Raymarine or tried trouble shooting.  I can push my clutch release past the stop and when I over extend it like that the resistance seems to stop.

Jim
1103
Sunshine
Scituate MA

[Hawk]

This is an older post from 2005 but I am having the identical problem.

Initially I had a control head power issue, now resolved. Coincidentally, or not, while the control head was in the shop this ratcheting resistance began on the drive unit when the wheel is turned with the clutch lever off.
Like Ken I dismantled the drive unit, fiddled with the belt and everything looked fine but to no avail.

I'm wondering if there is anything new on this gremlin in the last 4 years.

I'm trying to avoid enriching the shareholders of Raymarine.
Thanks,
Hawk

[Stu Jackson]

When are people going to RISE UP and finally trash Raymarine for selling poor products regardless of their "followup" exceptional service?

You have been buying TOYS for boats that need more than that for their incredibly inflated prices.

They used to make simple tiller pilots.  That worked!

Then they made the ST3000 series, a simple external wheel pilot arrangement that worked.  Oh, gosh!  It worked!

Then they came up with the ST4000.

Then the ST4000+.

These knimbnals claimed they needed a new fangled fluxgate compasses.  Gee, ya'da think that the OLD units, which had the compasses built right in, would have worked.

But NOOOOO, they ALSO needed, wait, get this: a rudder position sensor.  Just another $500!

Are you with me yet?

And then they came up with a new idea.  A new model.  The S1.  That model required the entire spectrum of BS that they'd not needed with the simple ST3000, which, on my boat still works.

OK, OK, now it's 2009.

They have this NEW smack outta the box, wizkid, newie, X5.

What did they do?

They promoted the heck out of it.  And then they delayed delivery for those folks who'd already spent their own hard earned dollars to buy it, and delayed it yet again, and again, and again.

Why, oh why, do you keep falling for this BS for so long?

There are folks who do like their Raymarine Autopilots, the ones with below-decks mechanical drives are reported to work fine.

The hubs on the wheels are deal killers because they are flimsy and fail repeatedly, often, a lot and most of the time.

But to spend that kinda money on a wheel pilot that doesn't work?

[Tom Soko]

Hawk,
The ratcheting of the autopilot is due to the belt being a little to tight.  There is an adjustment for what I can best describe as an "idler pulley", which is actually a small wheel opposite the clutch lever.  In the picture attached, it is the wheel on the left.  The wheel on the right is attached to the clutch lever.  There is a small plastic button on the forward face of the plastic rim, near the motor.  Pry this button off, and you will be able to adjust the tension of the belt. 
Another cause might be your belt has shrunk (which I doubt, as they have wire threads in them), and another cause might be that your belt has taken on the shape of the assembly.  You need to somehow create more space between the belt and the toothed cam which is attached to the motor.  Hope this helps.

[sailaway]

Jerry I had the same problem. I had to buy new rollers that go inside the round wheel I believe there are seven. You need to call ray marine for a parts list they faxed me one.  Ray marine is hard to get on the phone but when you finaly get there they can help. Ray marine roller kit part number A18058. Tension adjuster kit A 18059 , Drive lever/ eccentric A18059. Charlie

[Bobg]

funny how this post came up just when I was about to complain about my raymarine 4000,  My complaint:  My unit is not trustworthy, occasionally it will just take off, it can turn left or right about 40 degrees then steady on that course.  happens about every 4 hours of use.  I really can't trust the unit, anybody have a idea?  Thanks guys 

[waterdog]

Bob:

I don't really know about the 4000.  But Raymarine incorporated the same feature in their new X5.   So if you decide to upgrade, you can have the same familiar behaviours...

[Ken Heyman]

Bob,

---after 4 hours of continupus usage? are you sure you're getting enough voltage? Are your batteries depleted? over the years my 4000 has behaved like yours, on occasion, and it was a function of insufficient voltage.

good luck,


Ken

[Bobg]

Ken, the motor is running and I have 4 Trojan batteries with nothing else on but maybe a radio, the voltage should be sufficient.  The 4 hour span wasn't accurate, sometimes it starts the erratic behavior within 2 hours, then will go all day perfectly.  I have had days when it behaves flawlessly.  Then sometimes it will go left, I correct the heading, and a few minutes later will go right.  It does steady out on that course until I correct it.  needless to say I don't use it along the shore.  Will call raymarine and see what they say. 
Last year I had a phenomenon where when the unit  corrected the course to starboard, the clutch handle would ratchet up and release the clutch, I called Ray Marine and they hadn't heard of that before and wanted me to send the unit it, It was raining hard prior to that.  I adjusted the clutch and it seemed to clear up.  I sure don't trust this unit. Thanks

[Roland Gendreau]

I had similar erratic behavior from my ST4000+; I pulled apart the pod and removed the power and ground connections on the control head to check voltage.  Voltage was fine and ground connection was also fine.

After hooking it back up, the problem completely disappeared.  The only theory i have is that there may have been some resistance in the connections and my removal and insertion of the connectors cleaned it up.

I've taken the boat out twice and have had no issues at all with it since.

Roland Gendreau
Gratitude #1183

[Hawk]

Tom/Julandra,

Thanks so much for the detailed description regarding the ratcheting issue on the drive unit. Very helpful and that is the only reference I have seen to an idler pulley adjustment. Appreciate it.

The Raymarine service shop here in Vancouver suggested that some buildup or bumps can occur on the unit under the belt area. I'll look at that together with the idler pulley adjustment and hopefully sort it out.

And Stu...I just read your post and was muttering similar thoughts this morning as I drove back from the Raymarine shop. That was after they gave me some prices for the X5 and older S1 systems...Ouch!

Hawk

[jmnpe]

Thanks Tom for the excellent picture and insight.

Everybody that has one of the members of this family of autopilots has experienced or will experienced the ratcheting. Having seen your picture, it is now amply clear, particularly when you are turning the wheel fast and creating a little more force on the belt by pulling it over the guide rollers.

I guess the Raymarine wheel autopilots are a little like Microsoft: we all use them, but love to hate them. The reason we put up with them is that for the money, they still provide utility and workload reduction. Having had a nice big below-deck Raymarine autopilot on the previous boat, a Stamas 44 ketch, I will completely agree that they do work much better than our little wheel drive "toys", but at many multiples of price and installation complexity. So, in one sense, we are economically stuck with them.

Perhaps we could start a new topic where everyone could submit their varied experiences, questions, and impressions on all variants of the Raymarine wheel driven autopilots, and I could compile and analyze the data. I would be particularly interested in any feedback on the newer/newest system variants: always nice to see if things are getting better or worse.... It might be very interesting to see what common threads emerge, and if there are some common solutions or mitigating actions that could be taken to improve the performance of our little "toys" through better understanding of their limitations and proper usage, and equally important, determine if any of the undesirable performance characteristics could be reduced or eliminated through improvements in installation details. Finally, the items that appear to be design/software related could be presented to Raymarine as documented issues across a significant number of boats, and do away with some of those "we never heard of that before" brush-off answers that we have all heard at one time or another.

What does everybody think?

Regards,

John
1988 C34 hull 728
Otra Vez