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Author Topic: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??  (Read 1720 times)

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WindyT

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C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« on: July 18, 2017, 09:28:30 PM »


Hey folks!

I recently purchased a 1990 C34. Beautifully maintained boat and Universal 35 engine with only 900 hours. That said, there is no coolant recovery tank and when expanding, costly (and toxic) antifreeze had an overflow hose that went directly into the bilge. After some research and phone calls to Westerbeke and Marine diesel specialists, I decided to install a coolant reservoir (all newer Westerbeke engines will have this). See photo for non-final product but an idea of the setup. Anyway, anytime I fill the reservoir, coolant flows directly out of the cap on the manifold and down the side of the engine. This is the stock cap that has a spring loaded stopper and rubber gasket. (planning to replace cap tomorrow as i don't know what else to do).  I suppose the other option is to forgo the modification entirely and continue the old method, I just hate to abandon ye ole project because of what seems to be something simple!

WindyT
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Annie C  1990 C34  Hull #1041   Charleston, SC

KWKloeber

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 12:01:51 AM »

WT,

Have you carefully inspected the manifold?  i.e. a crack on the filler neck letting coolant by?  Or a bent flange that isn't sealing against the pressure cap?  If that is a-ok, then it must be a faulty cap. They can be pressure tested, but probably not worth messing around with it.  If you do a search on the main page and tech notes there's some info on coolant recovery/caps.

Coolant pressure cap:
   Wb      24306
   Seakamp   SK3516
   Stant    AAO-2516  p/n 10229

The engine looks like it's been taken care of.  Since you are a newbie, I noticed and will mention that she:

- has the engine harness terminal strip mod (gummy bear plugs have been removed.)  You may want to think about butt-crimping the wire to eliminate a potential corrosion/failure point.

-probably doesn't have over current protection on the harness circuits, and you might think about adding a fuse on the panel power feed wire.

-has the crankcase breather hose (off the valve cover) dumping to the bilge.   You may want to route that to the air intake to reduce boat stinkies.

Diesel engine specialists?  I thought they were all on here!   :D

Cheers
Ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
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WindyT

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 05:53:33 AM »

What a response!  Many thanks! 
They really do say that 1 project begets another!  I'll look into all of those things in the semi-near future (once I get the boat sailable - still plenty of ongoing maintenance/repair/refit post-purchase).

Follow up question - do you think it could be the placement?  I'd considered mounting the coolant reservoir at the level of the manifold in front of the wire harness there to the port side (would just have to be easy to remove if I need to get to anything else).  In doing some more reading, This cruising world article recommends no higher than the manifold: http://www.cruisingworld.com/understanding-coolant-recovery-bottles


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Annie C  1990 C34  Hull #1041   Charleston, SC

KWKloeber

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 09:21:50 AM »

WT

there's no reason to have it much higher or lower than the hose nipple on the filler neck.  For reasons that don't pertain to the C34, on my 30 the reservoir is much higher, and yes, coolant does spill out the manifold unless I pinch off the hose.   I need to put a small ball valve on it.   I'm probably telling you what you already know, but the reservoir simply fills by coolant expansion and the pressure > 13-16 psi bypassing the cap, and it replenishes the engine by the vacuum created when the coolant contracts, so it can be higher or lower, but..... why?  The spot you note is fine.

If you are leaking when you fill the reservoir, it's either the cap or the filler neck that is bad.  Someone recently had a cracked filler neck.  I ass/u/me that the hose fits tightly on the filler neck and you tiny-hose-clamped it?  Note that there is a slight benefit to using clear tubing (can see air bubbles exiting to the coolant reservoir.)

Let me know if you have questions on the other when the time comes.

Are you in salt?  Keep that Sherwood pump in good shape (it's an iron body pump and corrodes and if neglected the shaft can seize.)  That will ruin your day as it can snap off the fork on the camshaft that drives the pump.  When it starts leaking, consider an Oberdorfer (bronze) pump.

good luck!
ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

mark_53

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 10:48:21 AM »

Maybe someday I'll take on the coolant reservoir project but it hasn't  been an issue not having one at all. I just don't overfill the coolant and check the level occasionally.
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1989 C34 Mk1 M25XP Danforth 25lb, adjustable backstay, fin keel, EV100 autopilot, E7D Chartplotter, Navpod, Mack Pack, CDH diesel heater, Grp 75 start and 2 Grp 27 House batteries, Blue Sea ACR.

Ron Hill

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 02:18:33 PM »

WT : I would remount the Coolant reservoir at about the same level as the cap. In a location that you can see the coolant level in the bottle.  That way you never have to remove the cap again to check coolant level - just look at the bottle.  I also like to use a clear hose to the bottle so I can see that there are on bubbles in the line. 

It sounds as though the cap isn't sealing - I'd just buy a new cap.

A few thoughts
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WindyT

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 02:22:16 PM »

Thanks a ton for the advice folks!  This is going to be the final product (minus duct tape... just doing a mock up).  Unfortunately, the cold fill line is about 2-3" beneath the filler neck but that's as good as I can do given the space.

I pulled my cap and doesn't look like it has a second valve for return and will be replacing cap as recommended. 
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Annie C  1990 C34  Hull #1041   Charleston, SC

WindyT

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 02:26:28 PM »

helps not to forget the pic!
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Annie C  1990 C34  Hull #1041   Charleston, SC

Stu Jackson

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 02:57:08 PM »

Ron wrote this up in the May 2000 Mainsheet, picture is in the May 1999 Mainsheet.
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patrice

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 05:12:36 PM »

Maybe someday I'll take on the coolant reservoir project but it hasn't  been an issue not having one at all. I just don't overfill the coolant and check the level occasionally.

Hi Mark,
I went with a gatorade small bottle.  Drilled the cap a little bit smaller than hose so it is snug fit.  And cut the end of hose at 45degre so it will never get closed by sitting at bottom of bottle. 
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Noah

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2017, 06:35:40 PM »

Or you can spend $56 (+/-) at CD
https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/3890/coolant-recovery-tank-kit-universal-.cfm
Which apparently (thank you) my P.O. did...
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KWKloeber

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2017, 12:13:50 PM »

Thanks a ton for the advice folks!  This is going to be the final product (minus duct tape... just doing a mock up).  Unfortunately, the cold fill line is about 2-3" beneath the filler neck but that's as good as I can do given the space.

I pulled my cap and doesn't look like it has a second valve for return and will be replacing cap as recommended.

WT,

Lower than the filler neck isn't a huge issue.  Being higher than it, is the problem side of the equation.  As the engine cools it will still be drawn back into the manifold. 

I'd suspect that the rubber gasket under the cap (that seals against the flange on the filler neck) is compromised, or the flange is not completely flat, and allows leakage past it when the reservoir was high.

ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2017, 12:26:50 PM »

JTSO on having or not having an overflow tank..

For less than 14 bucks at Autozone, a universal for a Universal is real cheap insurance. 



It's really great insurance. Fantastic insurance. And it's a fraction of the cost of Westerbeke insurance.  And it will be so easy to install.  And cheaper than Westerbeke.  Did I say cheap?  Did I say fantastic?  Believe me.  So fantastic it will make your head spin.   :rolling

Or for 4 dollars less you can buy the cheaper Bronze insurance.  It's a skinny (4") plan.



Or 4 dollars more the Gold Plan:



(Westerbeke's is the Platinum insurance plan.)

You may never need one, but unlike a fuse, when operating correctly it's more likely you will need it than won't.  And if you keep the coolant (completely) full as it should be, then you MUST have an overflow reservoir.

kk
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:14:01 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2017, 12:47:02 PM »

Or you can spend $56 (+/-) at CD
Which apparently (thank you) my P.O. did...

Ooops, your non-marine-grade terminals are showing!   :wink:

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

WindyT

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Re: C34 Coolant Recovery Tank - what am I missing??
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2017, 09:35:56 PM »

I actually used that $9.96 universal tank from Autozone in my setup!  Fit fairly well actually.
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Annie C  1990 C34  Hull #1041   Charleston, SC
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