Cutting the Salon Table

[Stu Jackson]

I am finally, after 19 years, reducing the size of our salon table.  Having moved from northern California to British Columbia, I find myself spending more time below, primarily in the seat just forward of the galley facing forward.  I need more elbow (belly  ) room. 

I've read all the salon table posts and tech notes, like this example:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6707.0.html

After careful and extensive research and thought, and assistance from Carolyn Daley who has kindly lent me an example of her own cut down table, I have decided that all I want to do is cut five inches off the aft end of the table.  That will work for me.  I don't want a new table, we like the white Formica, I can reuse the fiddles, I don't have to cut a curve for the mast, etc.

My question is:  How do I cut the table without messing up the Formica?  I have a big table saw.  Do I put the Formica surface down or up when I cut?  Should I tape the Formica?  Should I just go find someone more qualified?

Any tips, tricks and techniques would be welcome.  Please note that I failed wood shop in high school , but I'm willing to give this a go. 

I've removed the fiddles from the table and have determined, from inspecting Carolyn's sample,  that the long starboard side fiddle will be perfect to use as trim for the new raw edge.  Ideas on how to affix it would be welcome, too.

The first picture is a closeup of the inboard aft end of the existing table.  The second is Carolyn's table laid on top of ours showing the fiddle attached to the aft end after the cut is made.

[mark_53]

If you cut the original table you no longer have a double birth. I'd make a new top. Not that difficult.

[Stu Jackson]

I don't need, want or ever use the filler.  19 years?  Once.  That's why I said "after careful thought and research."  BTDT.  Thanks, though.  And in the linked thread, one skipper said he'd cut his down and could still use it.

[patrice]

Hi,
I second Mark on this one.
I would keep the original table.  If you ever sell or would need to convert the table in an extra berth.

I used the original table to draw the shap on a new piece of wood.
Then i made new lines were i wanted more space to sit.  More on my side and less on my admiral.
Cut wood, stain, varnish and enjoy.
The original is stored in my garaga at home.
The new table is stored aagainst the back room on tha wall facing engine. Held with bungy cord
Then i made a cocktail table.  This is the one always in place.  From memory it is like18 x 16in.
Perfect for the 2 of us.  And when sitting inside a place for the drink.

And Stu, just a tip when cutting wood with a finish, make sure the blade will hit the finish side first.  If using a table saw, put the finish side on top, if usinb a hand saw finish side under

[Ron Hill]

Stu : WELOME to the Salon Table Modification CLUB!!!
 
What I did was to take the table top to a guy that made countertops and asked him to make my cut.  He did it for nothing! I just made my top into a drop leaf.

As far as the fiddles, I left them in placed the cut on the table top on both sides side cut went the them .
The what I did is to take a teak board to carpenter and had him rip about a 1/16" thick strip (I asked him to rip the thinnest piece possible)  I used that strips showing cuts to cover the plywood (which is under the Formica).  I epoxied it on the cuts (both sides) making it even on the Formica side and trimming it on the underside.  There are special hinges to make it into a drop leaf.  I made my own drop leaf arrangement with piano hinge, but the commercial hinges are much better easier to do.

Look in the Mainsheet Tech Notes and you'll find my article.  The only thing that I would do differently is to add one inch to the starboard cut.  The teak strips make up for the cut thickness so you still have the same size table top (That was a order by Admiral Phyllis!!)

My son-in-law uses it as a birth when necessary (like you, we never did)

If you want the table up and just want more room with a smaller table top, I'd just make a new top.  Use 5/8" exterior grade plywood and laminate Formica on the top.  Use teak strips to finish (hide) the sides.  Rip strips and then use a router to make your own fiddles. 

A few thoughts

[KWKloeber]

stu

As others said, on a table saw you would cut face up, so that the teeth are cutting DOWN thru the laminate, and the upstroke teeth are going thru an already-cut kerf. 

I use a carbide tipped veneer blade for laminate.  It has a very thin edge profile and thin kerf, and a thick hub.   
Or use carbide a plywood blade -- both are tough to go thru particle board, tho.  So if you can set up a fence to make a precise cut, you might try it in 2 or 3 passes if using a narrow kerf blade so you don't heat the blade -- or it will warp and then not make a nice fine cut.

ken

[Stu Jackson]

Ken, thanks.  I may have misunderstood, but the Formica is ON the 3/4" plywood base, hence the question.  So, multiple cuts with a carbide tipped blade.  Would it make sense to cut through the wood first and then switch blades to cut the last one through the Formica?  What do these blades cost?  If prohibitive, it may be worthwhile to find a cabinet maker. 

Others:  Look, I've been around for a little bit.  I do NOT subscribe to the idea that a few inches shorter is going to affect the use of the salon as a bed, as noted in the link from a skipper who cut 4 inches off either end.  But I have chosen to NOT care about it, or the resale of my boat, 'cuz I ain't sellin' it, and it's NOT a virtue as far as I'm concerned.  Please let's not open the discussion about the big bed, BTDT.  I do not care.  I do NOT want to get another table.

What I NEED help with is the cutting of the table with the Formica on the top of the 3/4" plywood.  I may be able to find a cabinet maker ala Ron's experience, but I have a table saw, a BIG one.  That's where I need the help.

Thanks.

[KWKloeber]

Stu,

Gotcha. I didn't know if the laminate was applied to particleboard or plywood. A plywood blade should work pretty well then, obviously carbide tipped is better than not.  I tend to cut laminate faced material with the blade as low as I can get it, just squeaking through the piece rather than full height. Just my preference.

In less it's real dense marine plywood, you shouldn't have an issue doing it in one pass and keeping the blade cool. So long as it doesn't bind.  With the plywood blade on like a veneer blade it's all one in thickness so heat can warp a straight cut.  Slow and study. Might want to try a practice cut half the distance first   

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks again, Ken.  And Patrice re the tips on using the saw.  Beginning to make sense now.  Since I'm cutting off the entire end, I have some practice material to work with. 

[KWKloeber]

Ya. My reference to doing two or three cuts, was if it was a dense particleboard which tends to heat the blade up due to a very narrow (basically nonexistent) saw kerf. Taking it (3/4") in couple bites would lessen the heat.

  I would suggest having a thin block handy, a little wider than the  blade kerf.  After you start your cut tap the block into the kerf  at the beginning of your cut so that as you go thru,  the kerf is kept spread open and doesn't collapse and bind on the blade.

[sailaway]

Went there the same problem. First made a copy of the table out of 3/4 plywood for the double berth varnished and cut a carrying hole in the plywood. Second went to hobby lobby a craft type store and bought a kidney shaped coffee table took the legs off and mounted it to the table frame. saved the old table top for the next owner. Charlie

[Stu Jackson]

I truly appreciate the comments, but those especially directed toward the question that I asked:

--- help me learn to cut the table I want to cut, not one to replace it.  I have read every single salon table discussion E V E R written about our tables since 1987.  I actually assembled some topics here on this forum about them.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough to begin with, but... 

... I have decided that all I want to do is cut five inches off the aft end of the table.  That will work for me.  I don't want a new table, we like the white Formica, I can reuse the fiddles, I don't have to cut a curve for the mast, etc.

I am simply trying to learn from those of you who are qualified with a table saw as to how to properly make the cut without messing up the Formica.

[Noah]

One single pass with sharp, fine plywood blade. Tape area to be cut with formica side meeting teeth of the blade. Assuming your saw turns clockwise, then formica surface facing up.

[Ken Krawford]

Agree with everything mentioned about cutting.  Also be sure to set the height of your blade so that the blade gullet (the depressions between saw teeth) is even with the surface being cut.  Also keep the work piece firmly and evenly against the saw's fence.  Good luck & be careful.

[Noah]

Apparently there was some confusion with my saw motor/blade rotating clockwise comment. To clarify:
If it is a table saw then the teeth should be pointing toward you when you cut a board. If it is a hand-held circular saw then the teeth should be pointing away from you when you hold the saw in your hand and are getting ready to make a cut.