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Author Topic: 110% vs 130% genoa  (Read 1277 times)

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chrisyse

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110% vs 130% genoa
« on: February 24, 2017, 08:18:27 AM »

Is a polar plot for a 110%genoa available on C34? I need a genoa and I have an opportunity to purchase a nearly new 110% for $1000, from a C36. I'm satisfied by the performance of my worn out 130% genoa in 12 knts  and above, but my partner just destroyed it. I sail in Long Island Sound.

Would someone with experience estimate the boat speed difference for a wind speed between 10 knts and 15 knots, close haul, 110% vs 130% or similar. I expect that boat speed is within a 1 knot above 15 kts the close hauled.

Thanks,
Chris
1989 C34 Wing Keel Tall Rig

« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 09:52:38 AM by chrisyse »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 10:18:22 AM »

For Fleet 1 racing, they use 130s rate 156, I rate 168 with my 110.  Also included in those differences are folding props (all the racers have them, I don't), height of the jib off the deck (mine's NOT a decksweeper, theirs all are) and a few other smaller factors that I don't recall. 

Fleet 1 has developed the fairest PHRF rating for C34s, mainly because we/they sail in one-design C34 fleets all year round, including getting their own starts in other regattas because they have so many boats.  I'll look for the ratings methodology and post it when I find it.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 10:23:04 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Stu Jackson

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 10:22:39 AM »

This is from 2003, minor updates have been made since:

Standard Rig 147
Tall Rig -9
Maximum LP 130% Furling Jib
Or tacked 8 above deck +10
Fixed 2 blade propeller +15
Fixed 3 blade propeller +25
Small factory jib (110% or less-short hoist) +5
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

chrisyse

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 07:45:44 AM »

Hi STU or others,

If possible would you recall the spec's on the 110% sail on your C34? Tack pendant lenght, Luff lenght, and clew height, sail material, etc.

I noticed in a 2009 discussion (105% Jib Track Mounting Inside the Shrouds, http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6378.msg41366.html#msg41366) that you installed a 110% sail but used a tack pendant to achieve a reasonable sheeting angle. I sail in Long Island Sound, light winds in summer though the winds were higher lately, but I'm willing to give up a little speed if tacking easier, and better handling at 20 knots or so. Why did you choose a 110%?   

Thanks,
Chris
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 07:49:17 AM by chrisyse »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 09:49:06 AM »



1.  If possible would you recall the spec's on the 110% sail on your C34? Tack pendant lenght, Luff lenght, and clew height, sail material, etc.

2.   ...... and better handling at 20 knots or so. Why did you choose a 110%?   


1.  Chris, I don't have the measurements or weight of our 110% jib.  It is a stock Catalina 34 in size and shape, but was made by a local SF sail maker, Leading Edge, not from CY or their Ullman loft.  Back then the stock sails from Catalina were pretty poor, but they are quite good these days.  We have a ProFurl LCI32 with the long link plates (see photo below).  You can see the tack pendant I use, which is thin high strength line.  I slacken the line before I furl the sail, which reduces the pull on the luff when the sail is furled and not being used.  I don't use the jib halyard for that; I keep the halyard on the mast on a cleat, not run aft.  I run the tack pendant through the tack grommet/cringle of the sail and the D shackle at the top of the drum, three times, which gives me a good purchase without using any blocks or further mechanical advantage.  I've tried wire pendants and find they just don't work because they can't be adjusted.  Others swear by them; they most likely use their halyards for that.  Your boat, your choice.   :D  The head of the jib is as far up as it will go, connected to the top swivel.  The ProFurl has a built-in halyard restrainer, rather than needing one installed on the mast.

I would caution you about using the luff measurements from anyone else.  STRONGLY.  Given the different drum heights and top swivels of different vendors, the allowable luff lengths can vary by a foot or more.  I say allowable, since there need to be connections at both top & bottom.

2.  You answered your own question!  :D  I sailed in SF until last summer.  I used our 85% jib during the summer and our big 110% during lighter winter winds or when racing during the summer.  The whole point of the jib size article (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7704.0.html)was just that:  a wider range of use with one sail without that much loss in light winds, and our boats sail exceptionally well in light air.  Either a pole or an asymetrical for downwind sailing and you're done.

PS - Re the diagram below, which I've posted on other forums to explain LP [luff perpendicular].  If you cut your jib as a deck-sweeper AND with a low tack, and it is a 110, you will find your jib tracks do NOT run far enough forward.  If you are considering a low foot 110, you MUST either be able to do the geometry yourself or get a sail maker to come to your boat.  Our stock 110 has a non-deck-sweeper foot, and combined with the high tack (from the first picture) we still use the forward-most jib car point on the track.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 01:04:12 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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chrisyse

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 02:15:30 PM »

STU,

Do you tie off the tack pendant with a knot?
I like your approach of using an adjustable tack pendant but I may try to rig a jam cleat similar to my boom vang. 

BTW, I plan to purchase a 135% genny from FX Sails, $1850.

Thanks,
Chris
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Stu Jackson

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 03:24:42 PM »

STU,

Do you tie off the tack pendant with a knot?

Yes.  You can just make it out below the tack of the sail.  Three times through the tack and drum shackle, then around the loops with a half hitch or two.  Simple.

Jam cleat?  Or clam cleat?  Why complicate things?
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Dave Spencer

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Re: 110% vs 130% genoa
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 11:59:35 AM »

Chris,
Here's a picture of the tack pendant on my boat.  I think Stu was trying to illustrate this.  It's a bit of overkill but it works for me.  For a furling headsail, I don't see any merit in adding cam or jam cleats to any tack pendant arrangement you may be considering. 

Also, the pendant allows the swivel shackle at the head to be as far up the foil as possible minimizing the chances of the dreaded halyard wrap.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 12:20:58 PM by Dave Spencer »
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