Join the C34 Association Today!
[C34 Home] [C34Tech Notes] [C34 Tech Wiki] [Join!]
Please login or register.
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Transmission Replacement  (Read 6936 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Paulus

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 4
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2016, 04:27:18 AM »

Bill, you might contact "Weal Sea" a member of this forum, but not active as he sold his boat about 2 years ago.  I know he has a brand new transmission in his basement he had for his C 34. He also had repowered his 34".
Might be worth pursuing if you are not in a hurry.
Paul
Logged
Cool Change 1989 #944

Bill Shreeves

  • Forum - Petty Officer 2nd Class
  • ****
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2016, 05:59:11 AM »

Thanks Paul.  I looked but wasn't able to find that member.  Any suggestgions?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 06:32:40 AM by Bill Shreeves »
Logged
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Stu Jackson

  • C34IA - Secretary
  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
  • ********
  • Karma: 68
  • Posts: 7484
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2016, 07:12:42 AM »

Thanks Paul.  I looked but wasn't able to find that member.  Any suggestgions?

Dan Harrington.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~harringd/gallery/WealSeaMenu.html
Logged
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Bill Shreeves

  • Forum - Petty Officer 2nd Class
  • ****
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2016, 07:54:50 AM »

Thanks Stu.  I found that as well and enjoyed the site but, didn't find any contact information for him.
Logged
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Paulus

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 4
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2016, 08:55:01 AM »

Bill, if you want to email me, I would be glad to give you his phone #.  I have no idea what type of transmission, but it is still in the box. 
Please email me at home:  paulus@wmis.net
Paul
Logged
Cool Change 1989 #944

Bill Shreeves

  • Forum - Petty Officer 2nd Class
  • ****
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2016, 09:24:51 AM »

Paul  -Thank you. Another member sent me an email with Dan's contact info a short while ago and I sent an email asking about the tranny. He also provided a phone number however, I figured to go the email route first.
Logged
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Ralph Masters

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 5
  • Posts: 613
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2016, 04:28:53 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, the condition of the ATF in the transmission should have nothing to do with the damper plate, two different parts of the power train.

Ralph
Logged
Ralph Masters
Ciao Bella
San Diego
Hull 367, 1987

Bill Shreeves

  • Forum - Petty Officer 2nd Class
  • ****
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 187
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2016, 05:25:04 PM »

Your absolutely correct.  I think Stu was considering that a bad damper plate might be a cause for the feeling that the tranny isn't engaging in to fwd as firmly as in rev.  Nobody wants it to be a bad tranny
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 05:30:13 PM by Bill Shreeves »
Logged
The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Paulus

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 4
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 07:25:47 PM »

Bill, if you check this board, you will see that I had the same problem.  I had the tranny rebuilt and at the same time a new damper plate put in.  The old one was making noise.  The damper plate was the cheap part of the fix.
This was 2 years ago. 
Paul
Logged
Cool Change 1989 #944

Breakin Away

  • Forum - Petty Officer 1st Class
  • *****
  • Karma: 3
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2016, 06:32:49 PM »

The hurth transmission in forward it use clutch pads. In reverse its a direct lockup no clutch pads. My boat lost its clutch pads and had to back it home. rebuilt the tranny good as new. That is why when you sail the transmission should be in neutral or reverse. Charlie
Would you be willing to elaborate on this a bit? I did a Google search for "clutch pads" and only found hits for "clutch plates." Are they the same? Can you point me to a reference for how they work and their expected lifetime?

The main reason for my question is that my transmission (which was rebuilt by previous owner about 2 years ago, so only about 60 hours on it) has a slight delay in engaging when shifting into forward (maybe 1/2 second), but goes into reverse immediately. I am wondering if this is a sign of an imminent problem that needs addressing, or a natural result of the fact that clutch pads (whatever they are?) are involved in forward, but not reverse.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 06:33:55 PM by Breakin Away »
Logged

2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Bobg

  • Forum - Petty Officer 1st Class
  • *****
  • Karma: 2
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2016, 04:52:47 PM »

Been having trouble with my boat slowing down, I have put the transmission in forward or reverse on the hard and cannot move the prop,, my shaft rpm is a little less than half than the engine, i.e, engine rpm 2000 shaft rpm 950, (hand held laser), not sure how else to check a transmission, I re pitched my prop from 9 to 10" pitch, gained boat speed for a month and then the boat speed started to deteriorate, top speed at 2500 rpm is around 4.8 to 5 knots, (calm seas) used to push around 6 knots.  Is it possible the extra pitch started to cause my transmission to slip? I know I have complained about this before on this board, got a few good ideas but haven't really came up with anything.  Boat is practically empty.  Bob, I know, I should change the name of my Boat :D
Logged
Bob Gatz, 1988 catalina 34, Hull#818, "Ghostrider" sail lake superior Apostle Islands

Breakin Away

  • Forum - Petty Officer 1st Class
  • *****
  • Karma: 3
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2016, 06:03:17 PM »

Been having trouble with my boat slowing down, I have put the transmission in forward or reverse on the hard and cannot move the prop,, my shaft rpm is a little less than half than the engine, i.e, engine rpm 2000 shaft rpm 950, (hand held laser)...

I am not sure I understand what you're saying here. (How can you have 950 shaft RPM if you can't move the prop?).

But do note that the transmission has a gear reduction. 2.1:1 sounds reasonable, but you need to check the specs for your model of transmission. It should be in your Universal manual. FWIW, my manual says:

HBW 50lZF 5M (2.05 : 1)
HBW 100lZF 10M (1.79: 1)
HBW 150VIZF 15MIV (2.13: 1)
HBW 150NZF 15MA (1.88: 1)

I'm no expert at this, but I've never put the motor in gear while on the hard because I assumed that the cutlass bearing would get burned up without the lubrication and cooling provided by water immersion. Could this be why you can't turn it any more?

I'm sure there are others here who know much more about this than I do.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 06:04:05 PM by Breakin Away »
Logged

2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Bobg

  • Forum - Petty Officer 1st Class
  • *****
  • Karma: 2
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2016, 07:58:20 AM »

Sorry I wasn't more accurate in my description, one of the test on transmission slippage according to Ron Hill (I think) is to put the transmission in gear, engine not running, and try to turn the prop by hand, I did that and could not turn the prop, there may be nothing wrong with my transmission, just can't figure out why my boat is slowing down, I get decent RPM out of the engine, and while running I almost get half rpm speed out of the shaft vrs engine rpm, about 50 rpm less at all speeds.  Could there be such a thing as a repitched prop causing the tranny to work harder and consequently start to slip? I don't know , sure is a head scratcher, I do know I am about a knot slower in the same seas as before, this all happened the same summer I re pitched the 3 blade prop from 15/9 to 15/10.   I feel lucky to get 5 knots, generally I settle in at around 4.5 knots at 80% full engine rpm, which is around 3200 rpm calm seas.  I did achieve 6 knots immediately after re pitching the prop, but that speed slowly started to decline to where end of summer I had lost about a knot. 
Logged
Bob Gatz, 1988 catalina 34, Hull#818, "Ghostrider" sail lake superior Apostle Islands

Breakin Away

  • Forum - Petty Officer 1st Class
  • *****
  • Karma: 3
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2016, 08:56:04 AM »

Are you using the same laser to measure your engine RPM? If not, and you're using your tachometer for the engine RPMs, the difference of 50 RPM is easily within the calibration error of the tach.

What does your manual say about gear reduction ratio of your transmission? (Please report back on that, since it it impossible to diagnose anything without this information.) 2:1 sounds reasonable based on what I posted before. It also explains why it will be VERY hard to turn over your motor using your prop. Do you have a compression release valve on your motor? Because I see NO WAY that you can use the prop to turn over your engine without releasing compression first. In fact, IMO not being able to turn your prop is a good sign that the transmission is not slipping.

Why did you raise the pitch of your prop? It sounds to me like that may be causing your problem. Even without the transmission slipping, an incorrectly pitched prop can cause other problems like water turbulence that could cause the prop blades to slip in the water, even without your transmission slipping. Just like wind separating from a poorly shaped sail, similar things happen to cause loss of laminar flow over the blades of an improperly pitched prop.

I'm not an expert at this at all, but it sounds like you need to provide more detail to get help here.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 10:51:11 AM by Breakin Away »
Logged

2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Stu Jackson

  • C34IA - Secretary
  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
  • ********
  • Karma: 68
  • Posts: 7484
    • View Profile
Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2016, 12:15:05 PM »


Why did you raise the pitch of your prop? It sounds to me like that may be causing your problem.


15X10 3 blade fixed is what I have and what has been recommended for M25 engines ever since the Tech Notes were invented in 1987.

Gradual slowing down?  Wouldn't growth on the bottom and/or the shaft & prop be the first candidate to check?
Logged
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up