Groco HF Head

[Brad Young]

This last weekend. My Head crapped out.

I had always used Vegtable oil on the pump handle and in the bowl. However,  this weekend I  used vaseline. Pretty soon after that it seemed like all the gaskets melted.

1)Do you think this head was made with natural rubber and the petroleum product ruined everything?

I had no suction (bringing raw water in). However if I put water in the bowl I could pump it to the tank.
2)So maybe some parts still work?

I would like to replace all the gaskets, values , fitting etc... Maybe keeping the bowl,seat, and lid.

3)Is the GROCO Master Head Repair Kit, everything I need?

or would it be better to replace it with another unit completely

Thanks
brad

[Stu Jackson]

Brad, it's just not worth fixing that head.  I've had them on charter boats and they are the worst I've ever seen.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html

The Raritan PHII is the best you can buy for a reasonable price.  Plus, they make just the base and you can reuse your original bowl.

You can get it for a good price at the store at www.catalinaowners.com

You're looking for the PHII/PHC LBA - the LBA is the lower base assembly (only).

Do a search on "PHII" on this board and you'll find Mike Vaccarro's writeup.

I bought a whole new complete PHII for a very good price, have yet to install it, only 'cuz I'm lazy.

[Peggie Hall]

Petroleum does degrade rubber, but not THAT fast!  More likely, the head hasn't been rebuilt in this century--maybe not even in the last quarter of the last century, and because everything does have lifespan, all the rubber parts--at least all the ones that had survived that far--finally disintegrated.

The Groco HF is a lot better toilet than a Jabsco, but 9-11 years is about the useful lifespan for it. Ok, yes, it DID still bring in flush water)...and it DID still evacuate the bowl...but it took at least 3-5x the number pump strokes that a new one that had actually been maintained instead of only fed some Wesson oil would need...the hardware--the inside of the pump cylinder has become so scratched and scored that rebuilding would only bring it back to about 50% of factory spec at best.  A master kit wouldn't do any more for it than a standard kit...both would be a waste of money.

Which is the long winded way of saying it's time for a new toilet. Take Stu's advice and replace it with a PHC LBA. If you actually maintain it--replace the joker valve annually (find my post "joker valve 101" for the reason why) and open up the pump to lube it properly with thick teflon grease, also annually...and rebuild it every 5-6 years--it'll still be working at about 95% of factory spec 20 years from now.

[Albreen]

Hi Brad: I too had a Groco HF in need of a rebuild kit 2 seasons ago when I took the same advice you're getting from Stu and Peggy and changed it out to a Raritan PHC. It is simply one of the best upgrades you'll do! 

[Brad Young]

ALBREEN,

Did you have any issues with the install?

[Albreen]

Brad - I recall the Raritan base required two new drilled holes - only two of the four holes matched from the Groco base. And, I also had to move the waste tank hose coming through the hanging locker into the head a few inches to make it all fit well without an elbow. But, it is all well worth the effort - this is such a better operating head with an easy to use handle for pumping. Good luck.

[Peggie Hall]

There are a couple of other things you need to be aware of...  the flush water inlet fitting is on the FRONT of the PH II pump (PHC uses a PH II pump), which may require a longer intake hose. This gives you an excellent excuse to re-route the head intake line to tee into the head sink drain line. This not only provides a safe source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the WHOLE system (water poured into the bowl only goes through the bottom of the pump and through the discharge line), but also either eliminates one hole in the boat or frees up a thru-hull to use for something else...maybe a washdown pump?  There have been several discussions here about doing this...you should be able to find all the details if you search.

The pump can be mounted on either side of the bowl...you may have to call Raritan tech support for instructions if you need to do that.  However, be aware that if the handle blocks the door if left in the down position, you CAN leave it up. Or even cut another inch off it if that helps.

Be sure to install a vented loop in the intake...see drawing 1A on page 2 in the installation instructions for the right location (hint: it's NOT in the line between the thru-hull and the pump). Vented loops need an air valve, which will prob'ly be sold separately.  More importantly, read and follow ALL the installation instructions, 'cuz it's always cheaper and easier to do anything right the first time than it is to do it over.

If your hoses stink at all, it's time to replace ALL of 'em.  But even if they don't, if they're are anywhere near 10 years old or even older, it's time to replace 'em anyway...10 years is about the useful life of any hose--sanitation, water, fuel or exhaust--'cuz rubber and flex PVC dries out over time and becomes hard, brittle and prone to cracking. So as long as you're replacing upgrading the toilet, do it ALL at once...you'll be glad you did.

And finally...this would be a wonderful time to move your tank vent line OUT of that d'd stanchion to a proper thru-hull that will allow you to backflush it every time you wash the boat to prevent it from becoming blocked.

Amazing how easily one relatively simple job can lead to 10 more, isn't it? 

[Ralph Masters]

Brad,
Just remember, if all else fails, read the instructions.

Ralph

[Peggie Hall]

Better yet, read 'em BEFORE anything fails!

[Brad Young]

You guys (girls too). Are suggesting something I know nothing about.  It is completely foreign to me.
Read the Instruction? What the heck is that?

Seriously, Thanks for the info. I will report back on how it goes.

[Peggie Hall]

And remember: it's always better to stop in the middle and ask questions if you need to than take a guess and end up charging uphill in the wrong direction.

[Ralph Masters]

Peggie,
Don't forget, men don't ask directions.  Or read instruction bookelts.

Ralph