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Author Topic: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks  (Read 8383 times)

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Dave Spencer

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Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« on: October 10, 2011, 04:01:45 PM »

I have a double sheave deck organizer on the stbd side of my boat and would like to improve it to at least a triple sheave.  I have one that was apparently purchased by the PO but not installed.  (see the picture).  (I may go to the double layer turning block (Garhauer or Spinlock) at some point but want to carefully think through what lines I need to run back to the cockpit before I go ahead with this.
I'm sure others have done this but I couldn't find anything on the website or in the tech notes.  How do I remove the old organizer and install the new one?  I'm assuming I'll need to drill (carefully) some holes in the inner lining.  Is this done by measuring from the mast inside and outside or is there a more elegant way to do this.  Since the deck has space for the triple turning block, I assume there is a backing plate for a triple turning block glassed into the deck.
Any thoughts on your experiences would be welcomed.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 04:13:16 PM by Dave Spencer »
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Dave Spencer
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Ron Hill

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 05:16:51 PM »

Dave : What you need to do for the third hole is to drill and tap a new thread.  As I recall it's a 1/4" / 20 TPI.  
There is a metal alloy plate molded in to that portion of the overhead deck.  

The old bolts should just back out, and you can get the correct drill depth from the old bolts.  
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 05:45:16 PM by Ron Hill »
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Dave Spencer

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 05:39:42 PM »

Hmmm.  OK.  Thanks Ron.  I can give that a try although even a minor deviation from perpendicular will be a problem.  I suppose I can use the new turning block as a guide.  The nuts shown on the 3 sheave deck organizer must be only to hold the bolts in place during shipping and don't serve a purpose during installation. 
I'll put a stop on the drill so I don't drill too deep.   

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Dave Spencer
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 08:31:49 PM »

Dave, DON'T DRILL THROUGH until you measure and find the backing plate.
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Ralph Masters

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 08:09:23 AM »

Dave,
I'm replacing my deck organizer on the starboar side with the double stack, not because I need more lines run aft, but by adding the second layer it will allow the lines to go into the pulleys at a better angle and not bind and rub on the stainless steel frame.  My main sheet is getting rubbed very badly there.  I have replaced the blocks at the bottom of the mast to bring them down a bit lower, the PO had replaced and had a double shackle arrangment so that put them rela hi and cause the lines to rub.  Since replacing those the main halyard has less stress.  And by replacing the deck organizer it will route through even better.

Ralph
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Dave Spencer

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 03:13:11 PM »

Stu,
I plan to carefully locate the position for the new hole by removing the old 2 sheave turning block and then dry fit the three sheave block to see where the third hole must go.  Based on Ron's comments, I don't see how the backing plate could be anywhere else except under the third hole.  (Have I oversimplified this? - wouldn't be the first time!)

Ralph,
If I recall correctly, we need to be careful about loading the second layer of the turning block.  I think the second layer has a loading rating less than the first block due to the longer moment arm off the deck.  I like the idea of running the mainsheet higher so it runs fair (or rather less foul) through the traveller holes but I would be concerned about loading the second layer of the turning block.  (Am I worrying too much? - wouldn't be the first time!)
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Dave Spencer
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 04:27:26 PM »

Dave, you got it.  I have no idea why they just didn't install at least a three block-er when they built all the boats.  Would have madse your life easier, certainly.   :D
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 04:28:38 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Ron Hill

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 05:51:39 PM »

Dave : I just looked at your picture again and a thought occurred:
 
Make sure that your 3 sheave organizer sheaves are ball bearing!!  If it isn't I'd call Garhauer and get a "trade it in" for an all ball bearing model.

A thought!!
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Kevin Henderson

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 11:55:31 AM »

Dave.  I'm curious how this project turned out.  Please let us know.  Did you stay with the Shafer organizer or did you install another make.  I am planning on installing a Garhauer double stack organizer on the starboard side but one issue has arisen.
The triple block Shafer that is in there now has bolts spaced at 2 1/4".  The Garhauer has bolts spaced at 2 1/2". Im consdering mounting the center bolt in the existing position in the drilling and tapping offset to the original holes.
Has anybody else done this before?
Curious to see how Daves project turned out.   :abd:
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Ron Hill

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 03:02:47 PM »

Kevin : If you look in this months issue of Mainsheet, I describe how I removed a 2 sheave deck organizer and install a Garhauer 3 sheave in its place. 
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Dave Spencer

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 04:31:14 PM »

Kevin,
I haven't made the switch yet.  I ordered a new Double Stack triple sheave deck organizer from Garhauer at the Toronto Boat Show last month.  (Along with a bunch of other stuff that he had in stock at the show.)  One thing for anyone considering this, Garhauer's new deck organizer with the open frame has different bolt spacing than the old style we have on our C34s as shown in the picture in my first posting.  Good to know.  Although it isn't in their catalogue, Bill Felgenhauer said they have the "Old Style" and that's what he ordered for me.  (although it hasn't arrived yet... I'll give them a call in the morning.)
I'll post pics once I have installed the new stacked triple deck organiser.  This likely won't be until April or May since we're on the hard and frozen solid for the next month or so.
Ron,
I'll look forward to reading your write-up in the next Mainsheet.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 06:07:52 PM by Dave Spencer »
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Dave Spencer
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Kevin Henderson

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 09:26:30 PM »

I'm still sitting on my Garhauer deck organizers and waiting to install. 
Ron, I read the article you wrote in Mainsheet but I don't think it applies to my situation.  The current organizers are Shafer triple sheaves and they are mounted with bolts spaced at 2 1/4".
The new Garhauer is a triple sheave double stack, with bolts spaced at exactly 2 7/16'.

I really feel there  no good way for me to get these installed but to simply epoxy in the existing holes where the organizers are mounted and to drill and tap for the new organizers. 
Is this possible or wise?  I was really hoping for an easy solution to this but it seems to be getting out of control for me. 
Any suggestions? :abd:

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The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective.
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Kevin Henderson

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 02:07:13 PM »

Just wanted to pass along. 
I completed half of this project installing the Garhauer double stack organizer yesterday with fantastic results.  I only had time to do my starboard side but I'll do my port side next weekend.  I'll take pictures of the project and share them. 
Basically, I decided to drill new holes 1/2 inch back from the existing holes from the old organizer.  I also Macgyvered a technique for drilling accurate and straight holes for tapping and using drill stops to prevent the drill from going too deep.   
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The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective.
~Henry David Thoreau

Ron Hill

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2013, 02:29:40 PM »

Guys : Just wanted to remind you that last year (2012) that I moved the position of the starboard deck organizer to get less than a 90degree angle of pull.

I wrote that up in the Fall issue Mainsheet Tech Notes (picture and results).  Wasn't that difficult to do. 

A thought
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Kevin Henderson

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Re: Deck Organizers / Turning Blocks
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 08:16:03 PM »

I completed my deck organizer project over the weekend.  I managed to take some pics and I'll explain my steps along the way. 
1.  The first pic shows the bolt spacing’s (1 1/4") from the old Schafer deck organizer.  The Garhauer organizer holes are spaced at 2 1/2".  I could have attempted to fill and drill new but then it occurred to me that I wouldn’t have to bother.
2.  The solution was to offset the new organizer slightly aft from the old holes by 1/2 inch.  This would not only allow me to drill new clean holes but I could keep the existing holes just in case I had to backtrack and re-install the old organizer.  Additionally, the ½ inch is just enough to tuck the organizer back and still not have any overhang.  I it probably does not make any difference but that tiny ½ inch offset minimizes the sharp 90 degree turn at the sheave just a tad bit).
3.  The third step became critical.  By using the old deck organizer base, I was able to use it as a guide to drill a true and straight pilot hole to mount the first screw of the organizer.  The bits I used in this project are a 3/32” bit used to drill the pilot hole.  I follow that with the 1/8” bit that has a drill stop attached to it to prevent going too deep.  The small white cylinders that are seen in the photo are nylon sleeves that fit perfectly into the old deck organizer base used in the jig.  The third photo shows the old deck organizer placed over an existing hole and setting the correct depth of the drill stop for the first hole. 
Once the first hole was drilled with the small pilot hole I then drilled with the 1/8” bit and followed that with the ¼ 20 tap.  With the first hole drilled and tapped perfectly I could then use it to mount the deck organizer in the first hole. 
4.  With one hole complete, I then placed the second set of sheaves into the organizer and slipped the nylon sleeves in place and drilled my second hole. It takes some adjusting and fiddling with the drill depths but as long as you are mindful of the depth your drilling it’s all good. 
5.  Finally with the first and second holes drilled and tapped, I was able to complete things and tap the third and final hole in photo 5.  Keeping the sheaves in place and using the new deck organizer as a jig really helps keep things going smoothly and the nylon sleeves were indispensable. 
After cleaning everything up and happy with the results, I bedded the organizers down with some gray Butyl tape… (Thanks Mainsail)
The finished look is great and the new double stack organizers allow the halyards to run through the sheaves without any chafing and they are ball bearing to boot.    :abd:
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The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective.
~Henry David Thoreau
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