Shower Sump Pump woes

noworries · April 19, 2011, 08:51:30 PM

The first time I tried the shower sump it worked... kinda

Last weekend it didn't work at all. The pump makes lots of noise but it doesn't drain. At first I could put my finger in the drain and feel a little suction... but then it stopped sucking completely.

So I tried putting a Shurflo Bait Sentry 1100 in to replace it, because I had it. My buddy did the install while I installed the new DC panel. After he got it all hooked up it still wouldn't pump. I looked at how he installed it and think I can re-route the hoses to get it lower in the bilge... but I'm wondering if the bait pump will work or not. It has no problem running dry but maybe it's not self-priming?

I tried to check for a one-way valve or strainer but couldn't find one. I don't see any access under the shower pan. My thru-hull is a T connector that is shared with the head.

Is there any way to get access under the shower pan (where the drain connects, to check for strainers/etc)
Is my problem I need to get the pump lower and prime it somehow, or is it just the wrong pump for this application?

Lance Jones · April 20, 2011, 08:48:57 AM

There should be a one-way valve. That would be my guess. Look at Ron Hill's suggestion about adding a strainer before the one-way valve. Before I did this, I replaced the valve 1-2 times per year. Now I just clean the strainer and haven't had any issues with the valve since.

Ken Juul · April 20, 2011, 09:41:03 AM

First step is to clean your the one way valve. It is easier if you remove it. While it is out, pour some water down the shower drain and use a dingy pump or other source of pressurized air to blow the line out to ensure it is clear. Reattach everything and give it a try. A diaphram pump is the desired pump in this application, I don't think the rebuild kits are that expensive. If you are going to use the shower alot, definitely add the strainer. A small piece of scotchbrite pad works well.

Stu Jackson · April 20, 2011, 10:07:23 AM

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4114.0.html Please read both pages.

noworries · April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AM

Yeah I found that thread and then read the 2001 article (although I was late to work when I found it, so I didn't have time to post a "DUH found it response". So now I have to cut the access hole so I can get to it. What a terrible design!

What are you guys using for a strainer? A strainer like the one on the raw water intake to the motor? (I believe on my boat it's a shurflo) I'd like to come up with something that's easy to service, but I'm guessing it will always require pulling the floor up to get to that access panel.

Another odd thing I haven't had time to check the forums for... it appears there's some kind of water filter in the compartment under the sink in the head. I'm not sure if it 's for the hot or cold, but it seems odd to have one there and nowhere else.

Ted Pounds · April 21, 2011, 07:16:39 AM

Actually that's where I put my water filter. It was an easy place to mount it. And I figured the only raw tank water I'd ingest would be while brushing my teeth...

Ken Juul · April 21, 2011, 07:31:24 AM

I guess strainer would be a better description than filter. You want to catch the hair etc before it goes down the drain. What works well is to cut a round plug the size of the drain in the shower pan from a scotch bright pad and stuff it in the drain. When it gets dirty, toss and install a new one. If you are real frugal, I guess you could clean it and reinstall

Stu Jackson · April 21, 2011, 07:47:11 AM

Ken's right. His method is to use Scotchbrite pads, Ron's is to use a fine mesh window screen material. The trick is to catch the stuff in the little round hole in the head floor before it gets into the sump. My Raritan check valve (linked above) is simply a more user-friendly check valve for servicing.

Quote from: noworries on April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AM
So now I have to cut the access hole so I can get to it. What a terrible design!

Only if you "allow" crud to get through to it. And yes, it would have been helpful for the factory to provide the kind of access to the sump that was explained in the Tech Notes, but, unlike a traditional sump with a pump inside it, it's only pretty much a little box with no moving parts with a hose to the check valve and pump under the head sink, so it's not really that big a deal. I have my teak & holly sole piece off for refinishing, and can see that cutting that hole is not a lot of work. Earlier ideas were to make that hole a lot smaller than the Tech Notes show, just to be able to access the hose clamp on the hose to the head. Peggie Hall also suggested using CP to clean out the sump by pouring it into the hole in the head floor and pumping it out, and also cleaning the check valve.

Stu Jackson · April 21, 2011, 08:54:40 AM

Quote from: noworries on April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AMAnother odd thing I haven't had time to check the forums for... it appears there's some kind of water filter in the compartment under the sink in the head. I'm not sure if it 's for the hot or cold, but it seems odd to have one there and nowhere else.

Sounds odd, too. Could be a PO item. We have a filter under our galley sink from the cold water side before it splits to the hw heater. It is there to catch anything before it gets to the fresh water pump.

Ken Juul · April 21, 2011, 09:19:20 AM

The one way valve should not be "hidden". It should be in plain sight in the drain line before the pump. If you don't see it, perhaps a PO removed it. The factory knew it would have to be serviced at some point in it's life....they would not put it somewhere where you had to cut holes for access.

It is hard to see, but I think the one way valve is just visible inside the red circle.

noworries · April 21, 2011, 02:30:56 PM

I might try a mirror and see if I can see anything... but I'm fairly certain there's nothing on the hose that's visible from under the sink. Since it seems to pump when I use the toilet pump that would suggest there is nothing on there... I'll try getting the pump lower in the bilge and see if that helps.

Here's a picture of the funky water filter I found under there. It's mounted under the racor.

Ron Hill · April 21, 2011, 05:59:27 PM

No : WOW !! I'd get ride of that water filter and get it under the GALLEY sink or do as I do and filter the water before it goes into the tank and at the faucet where it come out. The water filter you have is the same one that I adapted to a garden hose and use to fill my tanks.

To find your shower drain line, go into the head sink door and reach straight down - you should feel it. There is a black one way valve in that line like in Stu's picture. I'm sure it's clogged. Look at all of the posts and put in a new strainer and you should be good to go.

noworries · April 21, 2011, 06:05:00 PM

The water filter is under the sink... so is the racor... is that not normal?

I'm sure that filter needs to be serviced, so I'll have to find out what make/model it is next time I go down to the boat.

My checklist for "ready for the season" is getting shorter!
To do:
Fix shower sump
Replace holding tank vent hose (maybe install new thru-hull vent too)
Refinish teak
Wax & Polish fiberglass

Hope to take a big bite out of that work this weekend, and maybe actually go sailing too.

Stu Jackson · April 21, 2011, 07:56:37 PM

Quote from: noworries on April 21, 2011, 07:01:39 AMAnother odd thing I haven't had time to check the forums for... it appears there's some kind of water filter in the compartment under the sink in the head. I'm not sure if it 's for the hot or cold, but it seems odd to have one there and nowhere else.

It is different, but I don't think you've told us to what it is connected.

Ken Juul · April 22, 2011, 04:37:17 AM

My guess is that the water filter is a whole boat filter, plumbed to the fresh water pump output. I have a charcoal one that is similiar under the galley sink. It is kind of a pain to change, but it only needs to be done 2 times a year so I live with it. Perhaps a PO was having fouled water problems and wanted easier access to the filter. If that is the case, the work is done, I'd leave it alone, but change the filter element. No idea when it was last done. A good source is an RV store.