Motor mount and exhaust riser (with flix)

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ron Hill

Mike : You don't need anything on that exhaust flange gasket, if you have two CLEAN surfaces !!

The same goes for the raw water pump gasket.  The paper thin gasket will do the job. 
When you take the face plate off check it for indentation wear from the impeller.  It's always a good idea to take some 500 grit wet/dry paper, wet it and on a flat surface polish the inside of the face plate.  That will give you a better seal of the impeller to the face plate.
Ron, Apache #788

Mike and Joanne Stimmler

I now have the new exhaust riser and vetus K75 motor mounts and expect to be working on it this weekend.
Some questions are:
I'm assuming that the new lag bolts on the motor mounts should be stainless, is this right?
And are these 3/8 x 2" or 2 1/2" ?
I see that the 5/8 hose from the anti-siphon to the exhaust riser should be non-reinforced but how about the 5/8 hose from the anti-siphon to the HX? Should I also check or replace the anti-siphon while I'm in there?
When I removed the 3 nuts off the flange, I only wound up with 2 flat washers, there was none on the bottom. Again I'm assuming there should be one for each stud, right?

Thanks again for any help,
Mike
Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
mjstimmler@cox.net

Ron Hill

Mike : Let me take your questions one at a time :
1. The lag bolts should be stainless and (as I recall) 1/2" shorter than the ones in place on the old mounts.  I believe that 2" are correct. ( I did that job 12 years ago so forgive my memory)
2. Both hoses should be non reinforced, because they are on the exhaust side of a pump and neither make an acute turn.  The hose form the HX to the anti syphon can be reinforced hose.
3. Check the nuts to make sure they are not "rounded off" from removal - if they are rounded/worn  replace them.  I'd use a flat washer and a new lock washer on all three studs.
4.  You don't need to replace the anti syphon, but it does need to be checked to make sure it's operating correctly.  Remove the cap on the top and examine the small "duck bull" valve to make sure it opens and closes tight.  You might want to replace that valve as a "just in case". 

Good Luck
Ron, Apache #788

Mike and Joanne Stimmler

Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
mjstimmler@cox.net

Mike and Joanne Stimmler

Final followup on this post.
My mechanic finished replacing the K75 motor mounts and the exhaust riser two weeks ago and all went well. As a note, the mechanic also messed up the first riser gasket, so it was good that I ordered three. :D Now I have a spare one. There was no problem with the clearance between the heat exchanger and the riser pipe, but he did say it was a pain to get the bottom bolt on (although I didn't have any trouble getting it off except for having to use multiple applications of PB Blaster over a two day period).
There was a VERY NOTICEABLE difference in the now smooth running engine, which I'm sure was attributed to replacing both of these items.

Thanks again for all the advice, ideas and help from the folks on this board.
Couldn't have done it (as good) without you.......well..I guess the mechanic helped a little too!

Mike
Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
mjstimmler@cox.net

Hugh17

Mike and Ron,

I recently purchased a 1987 C34 with a dead M25XP. I've located a M25 for a reasonable price and I'm in the process of soda blasting, repainting, replacing hoses, and general servicing before changing the engines. I've read and learned a lot about the engine on this thread and thank both of you for blazing the trail and sharing your knowledge. Hopefully, it will prevent me from making some painful mistakes.

I have a couple questions and hope either or both of you are up to answering them. 1) You've mentioned an anti-siphon valve on the raw water discharge to the mixing elbow. I do not have one on the engine I purchased. Where is it located? 2) I suspect I'll have to use the exhaust riser from the existing M25XP when I install the M25 since the latter came out of a C30. From photos and physical inspection of my engines the risers appear to be different. Should I go ahead and try to crack the nuts on the fitting connecting the exhaust manifold to the exhaust riser prior to swapping engines? And if so, where do I purchase the gasket?

Look forward to your reply.

Thanks, James
James H. Newsome
s/v CaiLeigh Anna
Catalina 34 MKI Hull #299
Universal M25

Ron Hill

#21
James :
1.  The anti syphon valve is on the "exhaust" water line from the Heat Exchanger and is mounted high on the engine wall under the head sink.  Then the out side of the anti syphon goes into the nipple on the exhaust riser (just before the intake to the muffler).
2. The exhaust riser is related to the boat, placement of the engine and the muffler; so you'll have to use the M25XP riser.
3. Don't want to spoil your hopes, but I wouldn't go thru all the effort to put a 26+? year old engine in a boat!!  Yes, you can look at engine hours and cost, but just remember that the seals, internal water pump and everything on that engine is OLD!!

Guess it all depends on how long you plan on keeping the boat?!?  A few thoughts
Ron, Apache #788

Ken Juul

What Ron was trying to say was....your current engine is dead. Why do you want to replace it with an engine older than the dead one, and has less horsepower?

Boat bucks are hard to come by... it will cost more, but perhaps replacing with a new Beta engine will save you from replacing the replacement engine in a couple of years.  Unless it has been totally rebuilt,you have no idea of the actual condition of the engine.  Does it come with a warranty?
new Beta's do and have a great track record.

No association with beta..but I would rather spend a day sailing than working on engines.

PS..rebuilding engines is a winter time passion.  Wouldn't think twice if I was doing the work.  But, given a choice, I'd rather be sailing.
Ken & Vicki Juul
Luna Loca #1090
Chesapeake Bay
Past Commodore C34IA

KWKloeber

Quote from: Hugh17 on July 20, 2014, 06:15:44 AM
Mike and Ron,

I recently purchased a 1987 C34 with a dead M25XP. I've located a M25 for a reasonable price and I'm in the process of soda blasting, repainting, replacing hoses, and general servicing before changing the engines. I've read and learned a lot about the engine on this thread and thank both of you for blazing the trail and sharing your knowledge. Hopefully, it will prevent me from making some painful mistakes.

I have a couple questions and hope either or both of you are up to answering them. 1) You've mentioned an anti-siphon valve on the raw water discharge to the mixing elbow. I do not have one on the engine I purchased. Where is it located? 2) I suspect I'll have to use the exhaust riser from the existing M25XP when I install the M25 since the latter came out of a C30. From photos and physical inspection of my engines the risers appear to be different. Should I go ahead and try to crack the nuts on the fitting connecting the exhaust manifold to the exhaust riser prior to swapping engines? And if so, where do I purchase the gasket?

Look forward to your reply.

Thanks, James

Hugh,

What is wrong with the XP?  Why dead?  How dead?

Remember that the M-25 and XP are basically the same engine except for the cylinders -- so nearly all external parts on the M will fit the XP and so you potentially have a lot of spares. 

Regarding the riser, I don't know what your budget and situation is, but you might consider installing the Westerbeke wetted riser if you need to geta new riser anyway.  It's sweet and we currently have several C30-ers upfitting to it right now.  So far, one XP, one on a Beta 20, in process on an XP and an XPB.  It involves:

Trashing the leak-prone, weak seamed aqualift.
A new wetted 2" outlet riser (runs COOL. more sea water mixing, no insulation needed, will not rust out, etc.)
Routing the sea water discharge (from the injection elbow over to the wetted riser.)
A new 2" side inlet/2" top outlet Centek muffler.
The hose fixins' to make it work (using silicone elbows, some vernatube.)
Relocating (optional) the C30 exhaust hose out of the galley cabinet (real sweet for usable storage there!)
Adapting the 2" x 1-5/8" adapter from the muffler outlet back to the 1-5/8" hose.

The M and XP are, as I said, basically identical engines except for bore, CID, and HP.  The exhaust manifold is identical, as is the exhaust flange.  The one difference may be the shape of the bell housing and how the Hx mounts - some XP were identical to the M, but later the XP bell housing is a little different.  Can you post pics?  What I am getting at is -- because the engines are near identical, the exhaust manifold outlets are the same (NOT so for the XPB).


Ken K
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ekutney

Ken,

I just removed the exhaust riser and water lift muffler, as said in previous posts the information on this site was invaluable.  Using PB blaster and patience made the whole process go rather smoothly.  My mechanic said the mounts were good but they are original OEM mounts and I plan to change them to K75s based on the positive comments made by others that have used them. 

I have run into an issue, I removed the lag bolts from the front mounts and found one of the lightbulbs was considerably shorter than the other three.  It looks almost like the shorter one is broken but can't understand why it would be tapered at the end, I talked to the PO and he had the motor mounts changed a few years ago.  I plan to head back to the boat later today to see if one of longer bolts will work in the hole that the shorter bolt came out of.  When I closely examined the shorter bolt I can also see Epoxy on the end of it.  My fear is there may be a lag bolt brokeN off in the hole.  I don't want to have to pull the engine just to drill out that hole.  It had previously been suggested to put a bundle of toothpicks what are your thoughts?
Ed Kutney
1986 C34
S/V Grace #42 shoal keel
Universal M-25
Magothy River
Severna Park, MD

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
Edmund Burke

Ekutney

Pics of the lag bolts I removed.
Ed Kutney
1986 C34
S/V Grace #42 shoal keel
Universal M-25
Magothy River
Severna Park, MD

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
Edmund Burke

Ron Hill

Ed : After you check the boat, let us know if there is any reason that a shorter bolt was use and the hole is ready for a longer bolt. 
The shorter bolt looks like a regular lag-bolt and not modified. 

My thought
Ron, Apache #788

Ekutney

Checked and tried a longer lag bolt, it went in a little further but then started to slant.  There is something down there but tough to take a pic, I tried.  My guess is there is part of a lag bolt down there.  Since the motor is in the boat it is really close to impossible to drill...  Thinking it out but any suggestions are welcome.
Ed Kutney
1986 C34
S/V Grace #42 shoal keel
Universal M-25
Magothy River
Severna Park, MD

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
Edmund Burke

Craig Illman

I used one of these to drill a new mount hole with the engine still in the boat:

http://www.amazon.com/Ryobi-Cordless-Battery-Charger-Included/dp/B008E76BZ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456582989&sr=8-1&keywords=ryobi+90+degree+drill

"No project is worth doing unless you can buy a new tool"  :thumb:

Craig

KWKloeber

For one shot use where you don't want to drop a days transient fee....  here's another option

http://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-90-angle-drill-attachment-69337.html
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain