Bilge Water

[BlueWind]

Stu suggests the best place to start: Is the water salt or fresh? One of the most comforting things I recall from Don Casey's great book on Sailboat Maintenance is that all boats leak. It took me a long time to realize that I could not stop every possible source. Unless it's getting progressively worse, a likely source is the pressurized water system. I've had trouble with hose clamps into and out of the hot water heater. As someone noted, you'll be able to tell if it's pressurized if the pump cycles on and off when the system is on.

[Ken Heyman]

Steve,

The fact that intrusion is always and only two inches, I think eliminates many possibilities that have been discussed. While I don't know the answer --rhetorically-- what situations exist on our boats that allow water in -and then to seek its own level- and then stop. I think I might try emptying all of the fresh water tanks in the boat including the water in the hot water heater and see what happens.---an interesting mystery--good luck,

Ken

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Steve,
Are you sure that your bilge pump isn't maintaining the level at two inches?

[Indian Falls]

The more sailing we do the more we stress the fiberglass and the keel bolts etc...

Now we are getting just enough water in the bilge to "almost'' turn on the pump.

Once again this water has a skim of diesel on top which I mop out, flood the bilge with water and some Dawn, sop up, discard, and the next day oily water.  Ok, so we'll drop the keel this coming fall or the next.   The quest for the dry bilge may not be attainable. 

Does anyone know if there is wood in the keel stub between the floor and the lead keel?

Am I compressing rotten wood when I tightened my keel bolts to spec in April?  Which I did retighten a couple times before splashing in Late May.  Again I do not have a fuel leak, water leak or condensation problem in this area.  The stuffing box has to leak about a quart of water before it will migrate to the bilge, and that has not happened yet.

[Terry Forshier]

I also was having an oil slick on top of some bilge water. I was more worried about the fuel than the water at the time since my ac was running and I assumed it was from there. (it was) . I pumped it dry and then emptied out all the area, cushions etc from the aft cabin and put down pampers on the hull I put them under the fyel tank area, then under the sink where I have the fuel lines, then under the floorboards where I might tell where the fuel was coming from and under the engine. . I found the diesel soaked pampers under the tank area. . the hose from the tank was loose and it was leaking when full. Then I found a hose clamp that was not tight on the fuel line under the sink. I did a major replacement of hose and clamps. No more oil slick.

[Stephen Butler]

Many thanks for your suggestions.  Here is an update on our situation:
- No leaks THROUGH the hull.  We were also concerned about our keel and had some "weeping" when sitting on the hard (we went over in Wilma) so had the keel dropped, re-installed with new sealant, big ss backing plates, and the needed fiber glassing.  Also had a bottom job while at it. The hull/keel/rudder look great and are now not even a small worry.
- Checked all through hulls and again, no leaks. 
- Found a cracked fitting in the anchor locker drain and replaced.  Rain was coming in.
- Found a slow but steady leak from the 20 year old hot-water heater and replaced the unit.
- Checked the rest of the water system and found no leaks.
- Checked rudder gland (even though) it is above water-line and found no leaks.
- Found a small leak around the rudder cap in the cockpit when raining and subsequent dripping from the TOP of the steering quadrant.   Repaired.
- Measured rain water from mast (we have lots of rain) and discovered it could easily add an inch in 12 hours.  No solution.
- Found a slow but steady leak from the head system (line from tank to macenator and other small drips) and will attempt to replace the 20 year old tank tank and 5 year old hoses this coming week.  Starting to have an odor problem in any event.
- Replaced primary bilge pump (Rule 2000) after finding older unit over heating.  This may explain the consistent 2 inches left in the bilge.
- Found a small trail of rust on the inside of the hull from the exhaust fitting.  Will check further next week.

In the meantime, we have upgraded/changed our house battery blank (now 4 x 6V), our deck hardware, our ground tackle, mast to deck seal, new deck hardware, hump hose, engine water strainer, and a host of smaller items.  We may even have to a chance to sail her before putting her back on the hard!   Despite the time, cost, and frustrations at times, we are actually enjoying learning even more about our C34.  In the process of hunting down our "leak" we have learned a lot.....even after 6 years of ownership.

A final comment on CY and Ken Roy....Ken has been a great help.  Hopefully he will find us a new holding tank (CY's parts system seems to be a bit under organized), but even if CY does not have one, Ken's efforts are much appreciated. 
 

[Ron Hill]

Steve : Sounds as thought you have things well in hand.
 
You still haven't answered Stu's question of "SALT or FRESH water"?? (I wouldn't recommend tasting the water until you get the head leaks fixed - yuk !) 
You also haven't answered my of "which bilge compartment does the water first show up in" ??  Anytime I find water in the bilge, the compartment tells me 99% of the time correct, what is leaking!!

The leak (small drips) in the head system are the cause of your SMELLs.  I doubt that you need a new waste tank - unless the nipple/threaded portions of the tank itself are buggered up.

A few thoughts.

[Stephen Butler]

Ron and Stu, excuse the lapse.  When the boat was first put back into the water, after the keel and bottom jobs, the water was definitely fresh.  Tasted it and think it was "primarily" from the heavy rains we were having.  This fresh/clear water was primarily in the forward 3 sections of the bilge.  The aft most section had minimal water and it was "generally" clear to a very slight brown.  We did NOT taste this water.  As we moved aboard and started living on the boat, the situation in the bilge changed....some mornings we would have 2 inches of prefectly clear/fresh water in the forward 3 sections of the bilge, and no change in the last section.  Then the next day, after pumping out the bilge, we would have 2 inches of very brown water in all 4 sections of the bilge.  We would pump this out and the next day we would be back to clear water...or more brown water...never a pattern.  Yesterday, we thoroughly flushed out all sections of the bilge and  left the boat with minimum water in the bilge (to the extent of the pump's ability to get it all).  We also closed all through hulls, and had no overnight rain. This morning, we had 1.5 inches of "brownish" water in the bilge, in all sections. A very important point...when the yard did the keel job, they added some epoxy and sealant in the bilge.  In the process, they covered over the drain hole between the last and the 3rd sections of the bilge.  There are drain holes between the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd sections.   We have come to the conclusion that we are/were facing a number of fresh and brown water leaks, from the rain, deck washing, corroded hot water tank, cracked fittings, and of course the small (but smelly) drip from the head system.  We know that the head leak is flowing into the last section of the bilge, and the fresh water leaks seems to flow first into the 1st and 2nd sections.  Your thoughts??

Many thanks to Stu and whomever managed to get the Head Mistress on the site and answering our very own questions.  An honor.   

[Stephen Butler]

An update...dry bilge!  Vacuumed out the bilge after literally going through the boat from bow to stern, fixing small drips and can finally say we are dry (for now).  At the end of the experience, we identified 7 small "drips" from the anchore locker drain to a fitting on the rear water tank and the exhaust outlet, that cummatively kept the bilge wet.  Also took some measurements on the volume of the bilge hose and the amount of water left by our Rule 2000.  Replaced the bilge pump.  An interesting and worthwhile experience, if frustrating at times.

[Ralph Masters]

Sorry guys, I know this is an old post, but..................
I have been having the same problem on Ciao Bell, hull 367 and after reading Stu Jackson's reply number 11 I am going to check my rudder post this week end while we motor out.  I know if we run the engine above 2000RPM the back squats down so much that the water comes up to the middle of the bilge discharge in the back.  So the rudder post has to be below the water line too.  I have been going nuts looking for how and where that water comes from.

Thanks Stu 

Ralph Masters

[Ron Hill]

Ralph : If you are getting salt water in the aft bilge section it can be coming from the rudder packing gland or the shaft log gland or both??  If you have drippless packing in the shaft log so no water is coming out of the shaft, then it's the rudder gland leaking!! 

Our web site had a diagram of the rudder packing gland that I posted.  To tighten it you need to tighten down the 3 hex head bolts equally - a bit at a time and not much. 

[Stu Jackson]

Rudder packing gland link: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html

[gwp]

If I was getting 2" of water per 5 hrs....I'd get a couple beers and camp out for a while at the bilge.

[Ron Hill]

gwp ; Just remember that when the boat is stationary the rudder packing gland is above the water line.  A thought

[Ralph Masters]

Not the rudder post while motoring, my quest continues.  Oh well, it was worth a look.