stiff throttle cable

[Tony Benoit]

Ahoy,

I have a Mark I with a Universal M25XP.  This weekend I ran the engine for the first time this season, and I noticed that the throttle lever is hard to move.  I could see the red plastic lever breaking in the near future (probably while someone else was at the controls or while I was approaching a dock--you fill in the other Murphy's scenarios).

What advice do you all have for making the throttle work more smoothly?

Thank you,

Tony

Helen C/#903
Std/Wing

[Craig Illman]

Tony - Check out http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1712.0.html

I used Teleflex Xtreme cables as replacements. Although Mike recommended 11 & 12 foot cables, I think I'd go with 12 & 13 foot cables to allow you to disconnect them at the pedestal without having to remove them from the engine and transmission. It's an interesting, but worthwhile project. My boat shifts a lot easier and directly now.

Craig

[waterdog]

I suppose you can get all proactive and address the root cause of the stiff throttle cable.   But while you are driving around imagining the plastic handle breaking off, have a set of locking pliers hanging from a lanyard on your binnacle.   

[Stu Jackson]

Tony, 

Welcome, and we hope we can help.

1.  Get rid of the plastic handles.  Buy the new stainless Edson handles.  www.edsonmarine.com  You can order them online, Craigslist, West Marine, your choice.

2.  Investigate the throttle linkage as suggested.  Check inside the binnacle as well.  Lotsa good info at Edson's website, as well as www.marinedieseldirect.com for the engine parts PLUS OUR VERY OWN  "Manuals" section of the C34 website:  http://www.c34.org/manuals/index.htm

[Jon Schneider]

I agree with Stu, the problem may be as simple as the set screw on the inside of the binnacle (it was for me).  You have plastic levers?  I've never heard of that.

[Ron Hill]

Tony : I've written at least one Mainsheet article on the "Horrors" of the "rubber ducky" original Edson throttle and shifter handles breaking!!!  It's also been written up in Practical Sailor.  They tend to break off just when you really need them - the shifter is the worst!!

I'd look in Defender and get new stainless Edson throttle and shifter handles.  In the mean time while you're using the boat keep a vice grips handy - just in case it breaks off !!   

[pjcomeau]

Before putting the boat in the water for the first time, I had read about replacing the clutch and throttle lever and thought they can't be that bad. Well, I'm happy I had read about these levers being easy to replace, since rubber would be a better way to describe them. The first time my wife used them and the bent in her hand and complained they were going to break, I said it was an easy fix and already knew where to order. I'll still have to see if I fix the clutch so it's no so hard to shift, but at least with the new levers I won't be so worried.

p.s. The cheapest I found them last week was marine.com, but I ordered from defender.com because they had a great price on the Nicro solar vent which more then made up for the price difference ($1 to $3 difference for each lever).

-PC

[Craig Illman]

Pierre - One little tip. When you replace the shift lever, make sure the transmission fully engages before the lever hits the pedestal guard. It may require some adjustment. You wouldn't want a surprise the first time backing out of the slip.

Craig

[Tony Benoit]

Thanks for all your insight.

I have obtained the fancy SS Edson levers.  I installed both and found that neither had enough throw before hitting the pedestal guard.  I managed to take up the adjustment on the throttle at the engine, and so that works fine now.  But for the shift there was only a tiny adjustment at the engine, not enough to allow shifting into forward.

I looked under the binnacle cover, and it seems that there might be some adjustment at the lever end of the cable.  But the four machine screws that hold the compass in place are "salt-welded" to the binnacle.  Any suggestions on how to remove them?  A torch would seem to melt the plastic compass base.

Tony

Helen C., #903
Standard/Wing

[Stu Jackson]

Tony, use PB Blaster, a much better product than Liquid Wrench, for getting dissimilar metals apart.  It may take a few applications over a few days, but it's a great product, available at any local hardware store.

[Craig Illman]

Tony - On my transmission, there are two different holes in the lever that actuates forward/reverse. You might see if you're in the upper or lower and move to the lower that takes a shorter throw. Otherwise, good luck and patience to remove the binnacle screws.

Craig

[Mike Vaccaro]

See step 7 below regarding rigging for the stainless levers (we posted this a couple of years ago).  I obtained the rigging drawings from Catalina.  Also, if you do end up removing the compass, Edson sells replacement screws that won't corrode, unlike the originals.  Try the inner hole first--your gear shift lever will still hit the binnacle guard in forward, but it will work fine.

Changing Control Cables on a C34 MKI – Lessons Learned   

1.   There is a Tech Tip on the Edson website that details the removal and replacement of control cables in Edson pedestals.  Be sure to download and read it carefully before proceeding.
2.   Clean out your aft stateroom/storage shed and remove the teak bulkheads.  Not strictly necessary, but it will make replacing the cables a whole lot easier.  As a minimum you'll need to remove the fiberglass fairing over the turning sheaves at the base of the pedestal and the access cover under the aft berth (for access to the clutch lever). 
3.   Since you're going to have to remove the top portion of the pedestal (including the compass), this is a good time to perform any required preventative maintenance on the steering system and engine controls.  If you haven't updated to the new, stainless engine control levers, this is the perfect time to do the job.  Edson also publishes a pedestal maintenance guide.  It is available for download, or you may order a copy by calling Edson.  They also sell a maintenance kit that includes most common components.  The Edson maintenance guide describes how to inspect and repair the engine controls.  You may consider ordering replacement ¼ x 20 mounting screws.  If you have an older boat, odds are high that the old screws may have corroded.  New screws have a Phillips head as well as a coating that aids in preventing future corrosion.
4.   To remove the binnacle compass, first loosen the two screws that hold the light assembly in place.  Lift the stainless portion up, and slip the light wire out of the grove that holds it in place (you may leave the light hanging throughout the maintenance process, but consider taping it to the pedestal to prevent damage—the alternative is to cut the wires and splice them during reassembly).  The next step is to remove the four screws that hold the engine control housing in place.  To access the screw heads, loosen the screw that tightens the collar around the base of the Ritchie SP-5 compass.  Lift the compass out and set it aside.  Older pedestals have slotted screws.  If you cannot loosen the crews with a large slotted screwdriver, they have corroded to the base.  It's very difficult to use an impact screwdriver, since the screws are likely to twist (only the last inch or so of 4" screws are actually mated).  You may be able to grab the head with a small vice grips and get the screw started.  If you are unable to remove the screws, the only alternative is to cut the head off.  This is most easily accomplished with a Dremel tool and a cut-off wheel.  It will be almost impossible to accomplish this without damaging the plastic base of the compass.  If necessary, you can obtain a replacement base from the E.S. Ritchie company (the phone number can be accessed from their website) for about 20 dollars (you'll need to save your compensator screws and hardware though, so keep the old assembly until your new base arrives so that you can transfer the parts!)  Once the screws are removed or the heads cut, you can lift the engine control assembly off in accordance with the Edson instructions.  This will leave the remainder of the screw studs exposed.  A good douse with penetrating oil and vice grips as close to the base as practical should do the trick to remove them.  If a screw snaps off flush with the housing, you'll have to drill it out and re-tap. 
5.   The cables that Catalina sent for replacement were the wrong length.  They sent a 15 and 16 foot cable for the clutch and throttle respectively.  An 11 and 12 foot cable are more than adequate for a 1988 vintage Mark I.  The trick with control cables is to avoid all bends to the maximum extent practical, and make the unavoidable bends as gentle a radius as practical.  In our boat, the factory installed two twelve-foot cables, but the clutch cable had unnecessary s-turns, increasing friction and wear.   The Teleflex cables can be obtained from any good marine outlet as well as Catalina.
6.   It's necessary to slack the steering cables and lift the steering chain out of the way to remove the cables from the pedestal.  The procedure for removing the cables is detailed in the Edson tech guide.  To loosen the steering cables, you'll need access to the top of the rudder quadrant.  This may require the removal of your propane locker and the shelf that it sits upon.  The cables terminate at two large stainless eyebolts and are retained by common cable clamps.  If your clamps are corroded, now is a good time to replace them (stainless clamps are available).  To loosen the cables, feel under the quadrant to find the end of the eye bolts.  Use a ½" wrench to remove the stop nut, and then loosen the retaining nut.  I removed them completely and then slide the cables off the quadrant and sheaves below decks to allow for maximum slack in the cables.  This will allow you to lift the chain up and forward and provide a maximum amount of room in the pedestal to remove the cables and the cable retainer.  Instructions for removing the cables themselves are in the Edson Tech Tip.
7.   Remove the cables from the clutch and throttle assemblies at the engine.  You'll need to reuse the pins and setscrews with the new cables.  Note whether or not your clutch cable is hooked up to the outer or inner hole.  Some older installations with the composite control handles may utilize the outer hole.  Catalina recommends the inner hole to obtain maximum throw from the control lever.  If you are switching to the newer stainless clutch lever, this will be necessary to obtain sufficient throw to put the engine in forward.  This is detailed in Catalina drawings (albeit for a -100 transmission on the M-35 vs. the -50 on the M-25, however, the geometry is the same), and thoroughly described in other threads on this forum as well as on the Catalina 36 website.  Do a "search" or "find" for "engine control lever."
8.   The Edson guide calls for using the old cables as messengers for running new cables.  If you've removed the aft bulkhead, a messenger is almost unnecessary, but a light line can be tied to the end of the old cable at the base of the pedestal before you pull it up, to ensure the new cable crosses the chain and the electrical wire to the compass light in the same manner as the old cable.
9.   Hooking up and adjusting the new cables.  The throttle cable is retained with a simple flip clip and the clutch cable is retained by 2 #10 screws, nuts and a two-piece retainer that mounts to the afte end of the bracket bolted to the transmission housing.  Be sure to use split washers or self-locking nuts on the #10 screws to prevent them from vibrating loose.  It's possible to "fine tune" the cables by adjusting the pins, but not really necessary.  Ensure that you have adequate throttle throw to move the lever between the idle and maximum set screws and make sure that the clutch lever is in the middle of the neutral detent.  That's about all that's required.  You may find that the clutch lever hits the pedestal guard when shifting to forward.  This is of no consequence if the clutch lever is out of the neutral detent (lever on the transmission moves AFT when shifting into FORWARD gear).  There is no forward or aft detent, only neutral on the Hurth transmission.  Be sure to adjust the throttle friction nut to ensure that there is adequate friction (throttle will tend to drift toward IDLE with inadequate friction).
 
The most difficult part of the job was removing the corroded screws.  We had two that refused to budge and had to be cut.  One subsequently snapped and required drilling.  Since your steering system will be largely disassembled, take the extra time to do preventative maintenance and lubricate as required.  Be sure to check the play in the bronze pins that retain the turning sheaves at the base of the pedestal (a common wear point).

Cheers,

Mike

[Tony Benoit]

Mike et al.,

It sounds like there isn't any adjustment at the pedestal end of the shift cable.  If that's that case, I may wait until the off season to disassemble the pedestal. 

How does a new cable allow the stainless steel shift lever to be installed?  The overall length of the cable wouldn't seem to be as important as the placement of the bracket that locks the sheath near the shift lever on the transmission.  Can that placement be adjusted or is there just a single point on the sheath that can be clamped in place?

Thanks for all the good info.

Tony

[Tony Benoit]

Ahoy All,

I tried moving the engine end of the shift cable to the lower hole on the transmission lever.  There still was not enough throw for the stainless steel lever.  Since the action was harder in that hole, I put the cable back in the upper hole before reinstalling the black plastic lever.

I don't think the compass bolts are going to budge anytime soon, so I've decided to put that project off 'til winter.  It doesn't seem like replacing the shift cable would make any difference to the throw, but I'd like to reshow the wheel brake and do other pedestal maintenance.

It looks like I might be able to move the engine end of the sheath on the shift cable.  There's a clamp held by two bolts.  Then again, the sheath might have an indentation that matches the clamp.  Has anyone ever tried moving that?

Thanks,

Tony

[iwillmott]

I have the same problem on a 91 '34. is there no way to lubricate these things?

Kokomis