removing fixed ports

Jeff Kaplan · October 11, 2006, 04:02:28 PM

unfortunately, for us in the n.e.,our season is just about over.#219 is coming out next week. 2nd full season with her was great, new elliptical rudder made such a great improvement in handling. for my fall project, i am planning on removing and replacing the 4 fixed ports. after 20 years, the original ones are crazed beyond repair. if anyone has a good idea of how to remove the ports, in one piece that is, i would greatly appreciate all suggestions. i figure that getting a flat edge under on of the corners and tapping across and down might work, but if heat is needed or if there is a better way to get the job done, i'm all ears, and eyes in this case. thanks for all replys...jeff

Jeff Kaplan · October 11, 2006, 05:14:48 PM

stu, that post was for replacing the opening ports, already 1 of them. i am replacing the fixed ports and need info on how to remove them...jeff

Stu Jackson · October 11, 2006, 05:23:10 PM

Jeff,

Sorry, I mistook the "fixed" port request, my major error, for removing Beckson ports, see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3241.0

Our fixed portlights are screwed in, and also sealed, too. Try a search on portlight and fixed, lotsa stuff there.

Here are some helpful references from searches:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2132.0

This one suggests the FAQs: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=1977.0, which will take you to: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-plexi-fixed-windows.html

And http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2397.0

Roc · October 12, 2006, 05:00:31 AM

Jeff,
Before you go ahead and remove the ports, have you tried to buff out the scratches first?? Novus #3 heavy duty scratch remover works well. It might be worth trying since this would be a cheap alternative.

Jeff Kaplan · October 12, 2006, 07:01:44 AM

roc, thanks for the tip, but the crazing is too deep to buff out, tried it. these ports are 20 years old and beyond basic repair, no possibility of them breaking, i just don't like looking thru them and seeing all the spider cracks. saw an older 34 with replaced ports and it made the boat look new...jeff

Ron Hill · October 12, 2006, 10:43:21 AM

Jeff : You might want to do what I'm doing.
As my ports craze, I'm purchasing the replacements and in one case (center overhead) I repaired a crack so it stopped leaking. If any of these ports crack and or leak I have the replacements. Otherwise if they don't leak I'm not going to touch then until some thing's wrong.

I found that my 1st Mate is always pulling the curtains anyway. So whenever I sell the boat, I'll give the new owner all of these replacement port lenses and tell him he can change them for LOOKS or wait until they LEAK/BRAKE. A thought

Jeff Kaplan · October 12, 2006, 04:54:19 PM

ron, wise words, i think you're saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. i sometimes take on projects that i soon regret. the replacement is strictly for cosmetic purposes. i've done so much to restore my boat, new, smokedglass ports would make her look even better. i am going to attempt to remove the front starboard one first. if that goes well, i will continue, if not, it will be a project for the next owner. thanks...jeff

Rick Johnson · October 12, 2006, 06:00:25 PM

Jeff, replacing the fixed ports is up near the top of my to-do list. I would be very interested in your experiences during this project. Are you purchasing new ports from Cruising Concepts or have you found another source?

Cheers,

Rick

Michael Algase · October 13, 2006, 04:12:09 AM

Jeff,

I did my ports several years ago, and you are correct, it makes a large difference form botht he interior and exterior.

Be sure to send the old ones to Catalina so they can use them as patterns for new ones. I decided they were a much safer bet since they made them all the time,and the edges have a rather sharp, steep bevel to feather the adhesive out to the edge - and that bevel lines up with a corresponding one in the molded coachroof where they sit. I would also have Catalina send you whatever adhesive they currently use, or the same DOW product they used on your boat (I don't recall the model number off hand, but 301 or 701 comes to mind), whichever they recommend. I had the engineeing folks send me a drawing of the fixture they use to hold the windows during bonding (if yours are not screwed in). I have some photo's of my fixtures (an adaptation) somewhere and may be able to dig them up.

To remove the units, I cut the adhesive from the interior as best as I could with a utility knife and putty knife, then gently pried up the edges from the outside. They came out pretty easily using that approach.

To remove the old adhesive once removed, I masked the exterior gel coat with Duct Tape for protection, then used a wire wheel on a drill to remove the stuff. I also masked off the opening from the inside with a sheet of plastic to keep the mess outside.

One valuable lesson I learned: On the pillars on the aft windows that the aft bulkheads align with, be sure to put PLENTY of adhesive on those surfaces when you bond the new window in. For that matter, you may elect to not remove all the old stuff off that surface, just abrade it so the new adhesive will bond. On one side of my boat, that pillar, if you look closely, has serpentine strands of adhesive, and you can see the white gel coat interspersed among them. I didin't know it was happening until it was too late because I had the protective paper on the exterior of the window (and the interior except where I removed it at the edges to abrade the plastic to accept the adhesive), an hence didn't see it until I removed fixtures and paper - bonds cured at that point, and not worth the risk of damage to remove and rebed. Good thing I did one side one day, and waited for another day to do the opposite side.

. . .just my lessons . . .

Michael

Jeff Kaplan · October 13, 2006, 06:35:45 AM

mike, thanks for that input. that is what i was looking for. i thought of working from the inside out, breaking that bond first. i have a major plastics company in my area who cuts ports for many marinas and boaters. i will bring one port there first and show bevel. if they can't replicate, i will send to catalina to fabricate. about how long did it take you to remove a port? sailing concepts sells a package of adhesive tape to secure the ports. will probably get that from them. saw their posting and pic. of how they adhere the pillars you mentioned. thanks for the input. i will keep you posted on my progress...jeff

Rick Johnson · October 13, 2006, 08:49:48 AM

Has any tried using 3mm neoprene tape instead of the butyl tape or other sealants? Seems like this would work better since the windows are screwed down anyway. Just curious. I know I saw a story from someone who installed new acrylic this way but I cannot find the website now.

Cheers,

Rick

Jeff Kaplan · October 13, 2006, 09:40:22 AM

rick, a friend of mine installs glass in autos and trucks and only uses butyl rubber. applies with chalk gun. better adherson and watertight.i don't know what method i will use. removing the ports in one piece is my only concern at this time. cruising concepts posts the install method of their choice for our boats using butly tape...jeff

Stu Jackson · October 13, 2006, 09:46:15 AM

Jeff

One of the posts referenced above suggests that the bevel is NOT the best idea for proper fitting. I just read all of the one I noted, with their "offshoots" to FAQs and other threads, and so don't remember which one in particular, but I guess you've gone back and read them already. The gist was to eliminate the bevel to avoid a sharp edge and get more area against the inside of the opening. The Nov. 1994 Tech Notes were also noted as a source, see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3096.0 and the tech notes themselves. The suggestion there in that short article is to keep them clean before sealant is applied, as noted in the some of the other posts. Good luck.

Jeff Kaplan · October 13, 2006, 10:15:28 AM

mike, forgot to ask in previous post what you paid catalina for the ports so i can compare with concepts and local vend.thanks...jeff

Michael Algase · October 15, 2006, 06:02:10 PM

Jeff,

This is a test I am bound to fall short on.

I think I paid ~$25-30 per port. I seem to recall about $150 including shipping from CA to Upsate NY. I don't have the original bill, so I can't say exaclty. It was a while ago, and I wasn't good then about retaining all that information. I'd expect yours to be a little more after so long.

I do believe that for a few dollars more, you are at less risk to have the end product not fit correctly. Catalina has always been so fair on parts, I think it is worth the extra $$ (if it truly is more coming form then).

Michael