basic tunig/rigging of mast for 1989

[Chris Martinson]

My marina requires the masts to come down each year but this year the yard has gone thru some changes and isn't even "light tuning"........they stepped my mast and attached the shrouds and stays and that is it.  The mast isn't even centered in the hole in the deck....my wedges sit in the galley sink......I've seen headers for detailed rigging and tensions but now when I need them I can't seem to find them.  Can anyone point me in the right direction or let me know how to do this and suggest what brand of tension gauge to buy. 

I know that first I need to get the mast relatively straight and in that process get the wedges in (I've read you need 4 but I have and then tune the mast to be straight and then go sailing and finish the job.....

Any help is really appreciated

Chris Martinson
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Hull number 945

[Ron Hill]

Chris : There are a number of tension gages out there, but the most popular is the LOOS (sp?) gage.
I can't believe that your marina didn't put some tape on the threaded ends that go into the turn buckles before loosening the rig!!!  Then all you would have to do is re-tighten the turnbuckles to the tape mark. 
Think I'd look for another marina!!   

[Chris Martinson]

Ron - thanks for the info - do you know what model Loos gage to get and what the tension should be?  It appears that I'll need the most expensive model if I go by the shroud size - only the expensive models go up to 5/16" for shroud diameter....having never used a gage before - is the size that critical?

Thanks

Chris

[Roc]

Chris,
It would be best to get the gauge that will allow you to tune all the stays.  You are right, you are stuck getting the more expensive model because the cheaper one just falls short of the abilit to measure each shroud.

[SteveLyle]

Bigger boat, bigger parts, tools, more things to maintain/fix/upgrade, etc..

If you feel the need to tune with a gage, the larger Loos one is the only one I know of that does the job for a C34.

Lots of people set their rig without one.  Obviously not as precise, but the C34 probably doesn't need a lot of precision.

The obvious options are to hire someone who has one, or find one you can borrow (from another boat on your dock, in your club, etc.).

Steve

[Ron Hill]

Guys : The problem is that Loose makes the best gage, but for a C34 you need 2 of them.  One goes up to 1/4"  1/19 wire and the other starts with 5/16" !! 
I have one made by SureCheck maybe not as accurate, but it checks both sizes!!  I do believe that as long as you're in the ballpark all is OK.   

[Stu Jackson]

A search on "tuning" finds this:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=412.0

[Jim Price]

I reported couple of years ago that I had purchased a Loos Guage PT-3 that is for 5/16" only to find that Loos had upgraded the guage to also include 1/4".  Check out the PT-3, it should cover what you need in one guage.  Mine just stays on on the boat - can't use any where else but you know how stuff is never there when you need it.   

[Chris Martinson]

As always - great information and thanks...two  last questions:

Stu - where did you get your SureCheck gage - I contacted my usual stores and they don't seem to know about it.  It appears I can get the Loos PT-3 which will measure both stay sizes from Defender for about $165....the best I've found so far.

Does anyone know what the tension should be on the uppers, lowers and back stay or is just getting the shrouds even good enough (I wouldn't the latter is correct)...thanks

Chris Martinson
More Therapy
Hull # 945

[Ron Hill]

Chris : I got my SureCheck gage from Hayn Marine (800)346-4296.  It was a few years back, but as I recall it was about $50.
Hope this helps.   

[Stu Jackson]

You can spend $$ on a gage.  But no matter what, inevitably, you will have to go sailing and check the leeward shrouds, and then tighten each side of them to balance the rig.  The forestay and backstay get started to keep the mast straight.  The forestay gets checked against the curve of the luff of the jib and the backstay and forestay adjusted accordingly.  So I'm unclear on concept of the gages, and have never seen the need to use one.  This is a cruiser speaking.   

[Jim Price]

This is a chart developed by Ken Morton of Trident 1300.  Even if you con't use a guage, it should give you some idea of the relationship loads for each stay.

Thanks to Ken for his work.

[BillG]

Chris, see onlinemarine.com, I think the PT-3 is  $125.00.

[Fred Jackson]

Chris,

I have some different views on tuning, gained from lots of years racing, and listening to a lot of advice, especially from sailmakers.  Stu's last comment is correct, but I want to state it more strongly.  You do not tune a rig with gauges!!!  You tune a rig by centering the mast head, then getting the mast profile and sail shape you want by sailing and observing both the mast and your sails.  If you use a backstay tensioner, you want to tune differently than without one.  Gauges are useful to record tensions once you get it right so you can repeat the settings or have a reference from which to deviate and to compare tensions shroud to shroud.  Another factor is the wind conditioins in which you commonly sail.  All this says, taking gauge readings from someone else and applying them to your boat and sails is not the right approach.  Do I own and use gauges?  Yes.  They are very useful.  But you do not start the tuning process with them and they are not your primary indicators of when you've got it right. Also, I disagree with Ron's advice about marking turnbuckles with tape to recreate last year's settings.  Hulls flex more than most people realize, affecting rig settings.  Once relaunched, your boat needs to relax in the water for a few days before tuning.  Hull flexing also causes another problem with relying on gauges.  Once you harden up your shrouds, the hull will flex, affecting your initial settings.  One general rule: Most people way overtighten headstays.  People will tell you that your boat won't point as well with a sloppy headstay but that's not necessarily so, depending on wind velocity and sail cut.  Most cruisers do their sailing in 15 knots or less.  In lower velocities you'll get more power from your genoa with a slack headstay.  One other note: because of hull flexing, rig tuning on some boats affects engine alignment.  So after tuning, let your boat sit for a few days, then check the engine alignment.  Now I expect there will be disagreeing replies to much of what I've written here.  I told you my views are different.  But go talk to sailmakers and hard core racers, then decide.  Fred J. Catalina 36 #2209, former Catalina 320 # 392, former Catalina 25 #4300

[dave davis]

Let me jump in with a few comments coming from a racers view point.
There are lots of things that you have to do at the dock. Then you should go out to finish the job while sailing. When you go out, you should bring a friend with the tools needed to adjust all the standing rigging.
The first thing to do is get the top of the mast in the center by hanging a non-stretch halyard or wire and measure to a outboard edge. You can also hang a weight from the halyard to see where it settles down.When no-one is on board. I like mine to be at about 4 inches aft. You may have to adjust the lowers and the forstay to allow the mast to look straight. You should remove the sail  so that you can site-up the mast for better viewing. For every thing I have mentioned, there are several items that should be mentioned. A rigger could write a book on the proper way of doing a good job. My rigger does not use a tension gage. He pulls and pushes the rigging to feel the tightness and keeps sighting up the mast. Yes, I do have a gage that can only measure the lowers.
After you are happy with what you can do at the dock. Then you can go out and repeat all of the item that you worked on at the dock.
Tunning is a tough job and if you are interested in racing, it can be very worthwhile.
Good Luck, Dave