Extended Offshore Cruising

[WojtekG]

I'd like to get an old (80's) C34, add few things like a cutter stay (inner forestay) and the runners, add some stowage space, windlass and few other things necessary for extended offshore cruising with my wife and few year old son. Am I nuts to do it on C-34? Any advice would be appreciated.

[Stu Jackson]

Not nuts.

Seems like a definition of "extended offshore cruising" would help us to better address your question.

Many C34s have been to Mexico and back.  Going may be considered coastal cruising, but some have returned offshore.  How extended can that be considered is anyone's guess.

Some have gone to Alaska and back.  While much of that trip is surrounded by land except for the dangerous few open ocean crossings, the requirements for self sufficiency were apparent.

Some C36s have rigged cutter stays, I don't remember if a C34 has done so.  Many would consider it unnecessary given storm sails and the Gale Sail.

An older C34 would require, for starters (no pun intended!), substantial upgrading in the electrical side, especially battery charging systems, which were and still are woefully unacceptable in the OEM stock system.  There is, however, plenty of room for batteries!

Discussion of all the other systems here is beyond the scope of this message board, and it appears that you are aware of the systems work involved in preparing any vessel for the intended task.

We sailed in a long race on Saturday here on SF Bay in sustained winds of well over 25 kts and high gusts for four and a half hours, half of it upwind.  That doesn't seem like much for comparison to extended offshore cruising.  But, if cruised properly, one shouldn't encounter "bad" stuff, and if it happens, it does, but on average most cruisers don't see that kind of wind for sustained periods, nor would they like to.  

The only reason I mention the race is that out of over one hundred boats and eight classes, we were the ONLY class to have ALL boats show up (7) AND finish the race.  We sail here in winds that are considered heavy by others as a natural course of events.

As a result, we conclude that the boat can take it, if properly prepared.

Good luck, join the C34IA when you get your C34 and learn all about the boat and its systems from those of us who have shared our experiences.  :)

[Ron Hill]

Woj : I published an article in the Mainsheet by Jim Heffernan back in Nov 1997 on his conversion of a C34 to a cutter rig.  Can be done on the conversion, but not to sure that the C34 is the ocean going boat that you want.  
The C34 is a great boat but don't think I do extended off shore sailing with it.  I've got about 30 years sailing experience and owned my C34 for only 17 years  -- your choice.  

[George Bean]

Hey wait a minute!  There were eight of us, remember, I was there too!  What was truly notable about Saturday was out of all divisions from some six races/regattas, we were the only one that all eight that had signed up, started, and more importantly, all eight finished.  We were in the only single/double handed regatta that day, the rest were crewed events.  That weekend, a late winter storm system passed through Northern California producing heavy rain, thunderstorms, a funnel cloud, seas outside the Gate to twenty feet and true winds consistently in the mid twenties and sustained gusts well into the thirties.  Incidentally, over half of our division were flying our usual 130 Genoas and single reefed mains.  The C34 is one well laid out and sturdy boat.  I really don't think you could do much better in the price range.  I also know of a C34 that did the Pacific Cup to Hawaii.  Does the Mk I have the bow water tank? If so, that might pose a problem in installing a baby stay.  That stay might not be used that much anyways as I don't think you'll be able to pull in any mast bend with it on our masthead rigged boats.  Likewise, I don't think the running backs would help the trim that much.  Have you considered a hydraulic back stay adjuster?  Storage will be a problem as our interiors were designed to maximize the living, not the storage space.  A little creativity ought to glean out some more storage space.  Extended cruising?  How far and where?  I'd love to hear your plans!

[Stu Jackson]

George

I should have said 7 in addition to our little vessel.  The entire day was like rounding Cape Horn, or at least Point Conception.  Tons of fun, and that was a measure of the green water coming over the bow!

What a remarkable and memorable day.  Glad you were there too.

Only the earliest boats had forward V berth water tanks.  Ours, #224, has the starboard tank, and i KNOW #55 had the forward tank.  Somewhere in between...

[WojtekG]

Thank you all for your replies. As of the 'Extended Offshore Cruising' I mean 'All the way but easy way' which is starting US East Coast through Carribs through Panama, Galapagos, Marquesas, maybe touching north coast of Kiwis if not then go straight through Torres Straight visiting only northern Aussies then Indonesia, Malesia, Northern Indian Ocean to Red Sea, Meds, Azores and back to East US maybe through Bermuda. I'd try to avoid southern seas (I don't want to prove anything) including Roaring 40s and below neither Tasman. I'd want to avoid any southern capes.
Now, when I described my plan, do you think that C34 would be sturdy enough to do it? I don't have a problem with redoing the electrical system, I love carpentry so I'd build her up with lot's more stowage space but I am concerned mostly with the hull engineering (bulkeads, thickness of the hull bottom lay-up, keel-to-hull bonding, etc.). I actually like the C34 size a lot and one of the reasons for this size is that my wife is a certified wimp (and I love her for that) and although a good sailor she would have a problem with bigger sail plan/rig than C34. I recently viewed some boats that made it around and they looked much smaller inside than C34.
As of the reason of putting the cutter stay and runners would be not to tension the mast in any way but to allow simple rolling of the main genny and hoisting some storm staysail on the inner forestay in heavy conditions. Also (God forbid) if anything was to happen to the forestay then there would be an extra wire to hold the mast straight. There is no tanks around the v-berth and actual framing an extension/support of the extra stay to the bow/anchorbox bulkhead should be pretty simple.
Any comments?

[Ron Hill]

Woj : Sounds like you made up your mind.  Read that article I mentioned on the conversion from a sloop to a cutter rig.  The builder does NOT advertise the C34 as an off shore boat.  Don't think 9.9 out of 10 people would recommend your kind of a trip in a C34.  A C27 has cir-cum -  navigated the globe, but then a person without a parachute has also fallen out of a airplane and landed in a haystack.  
Go do it - your choice.  Good Luck.  

[captran]

If you read the practical sailor review the C 34 really is a coastal cruiser.  And for that purpose she is a great boat.  But for serious off shore I would prefer something with a cutaway forefoot and a sturdily built rudder hung on a fair size skeg.  A bridgedeck and a much smaller cockpit would be another requirement.  Don't get me wrong- I like my little C 34.  We pounded our way from the Berry Islands to Nassau two summers ago, into 6 to 8 foot seas, and while alittle jerky in motion, she handled OK.  Had seven foot rollers with the leg from the Exumas to Eleuthera and some nice six foot rollers from Spanish Wells back up to the Abacos.  12 hour trips on the those with wind on the beam to the aft quarter.  But for offshore work I don't think a C 34  would be the best choice.  There are many books and as many opinions on the ideal long range cruiser.  I've read accounts of small boats  going places I wouldn't dream of in a C 34, but I tend to be cautious.  Mother nature is not always kind.  From your plans, you must have some ideas of what's in store out there.  Be careful.

Randy

[Norris Johnson]

I'm probably the most inexperienced sailor here to comment on extended cruising, but in the last 7 yrs, I've meet four couples and one deaf person who just completed a solo circumnavigation in 289 days in a 25 yr old
37 Tartan. His trip was chronicled by email daily. He is also a personal friend and the closest thing to "MacGyver" I've ever met. The guy can jury rig anything in an emergency. I helped him rig his boat before he left. All of those folks agree that a sturdy rudder and a sturdy wind vane are a must. A sturdy below deck Auto pilot is also required along with all of the other things mentioned before me. Check out his website @ silentvoyager.com


I've competed in the last 6 Harvest Moon Regatta from Galveston to Port Aransas. Its a 150 mile race that parallels the Texas coast. A couple of those races had some really rough weather. I've experienced gusts to 40 kts and wave heights to 10 ft. while going to weather. The boat handled great after I learned how to trim the sails for those conditions and learned when the sun goes down, REEF. You can always pop the reef out. I don't mind telling y'all, I did get nervous when I went below to get some rest during those rough conditions and I could hear all the creaking and groaning going on down in the boat. The key is the race parallels the coast. You are never more than 10 to 12 miles from the beach. I'm 66 yrs old and I don't think that race is doing my boat any good, so I think I'll retire........I say this every year!
Norris

[WojtekG]

Thanx a bunch Ron and Captran for the info. I am still looking for the answer on whether the hull/rig of C34 is built solid enough for such a trip. I've seen few C34s now and I've also seen some other boats like Express 35, Tartan 37, etc. that made this trip and were quite OK for the task. When I compared for instance Express 35 to C34, C34 was far better off as far as internal space, ventilation, standing rigging (Express had single chainplate for both shrouds while C34 has all three shrouds attached to separate chainplates). Both had pretty much the same overhangs, C34 has longer LWL and the only thing I'd say that by knocking at the Express bottom hull it 'felt' like it would be thicker than C34s.
I've sailed or racing dinghies since I was a kid, then starting from the early adulthood years I cruised on boats in 20 to 33ft range. Now I am in my early 40's I know that I have to do it before I still have strength and guts for it.  From dozens of books I read about circumnavigation, most of the couples have done it on the boats below 40ft and I would think that about half of these were below 35ft!.
I'd like to know what would prevent C34 to go around the world? I've investigated lots of aspects of C34 for few years now reading your comments (quite excellent), Practical Sailor reviews (that sometimes are quite biased) and other materials. Again, I chose the 'milk run' route around to have a relatively easy run (obviously in the appropriate weather windows) with the winds mostly from the quarter and not too high seas. I know that I need to prepare for an 'odd' gale or storm (that's why I'd like to put the cutter stay) but otherwise C34 seems to suit me just right. Any comments please?

[WojtekG]

Thank you Norris too for your reply. I started writing my reply before I saw yours.
WojtekG

[Ted Pounds]

Here's my $.02:   With the proper preparation I think the C34 will make the trip just fine.  I believe at least one has made the trip from the West Coast to Hawaii.  I've had mine surfing down 10 foot waves in 30 kt winds on Lake Michigan (indicated speed was 9.5 knots    ).  

I do think preparation is the key.  Three things that Norris mentioned, rudder, vane and autopilot, are certainly important.  You should definitely have you rudder checked.  I had mine re-cast last year and when they opened it up at Catalina they found the webbing totally rusted.  If it had broken loose the rudder would have spun free on the shaft, not a good thing   .  You might consider  having yours recast even if it's in good shape  as the new design handles much better any way.  

There's lots of storage space if you want to get creative.  Under the v-berth, for instance, is a huge area.  I've added two extra doors and a drawer to use some of that  space.

I know I've read about other Catalina types (30 or 36 maybe?) adding inner fore stays.  You can try to find some back issues of Mainsheet or check out some websites for info.  An easier option, as Stu mentioned, would be a "Gale Sail" from ATN.  It's a storm sail with a zippered(?) sleeve that goes over the rolled up jib.  It not only serves as a storm jib, it also ensures your bigger jib won't unroll.  

You might want to pay to have a good surveyor go over the boat.  He/she might be able to point out any weak spots and tell you how to beef them up.  Another good source for info are the offshore racing requirements.  Check out this link http://www.sailing.org/offshore/2004/2004Mo1.pdf

Sounds like a lot of fun to me.  If you do it you should send back dispatches along the way so we can all know how it works out.

[Rick Johnson]

I'm actually planning on a similar purchase unless someone talks me out of it.  I just moved to Austin, Texas from Southern California and figure the Gulf will give me some more experience.  I was planning on sticking to the coast until ready and then trying to sail to England.  There is a great story in "Good Old Boat" mag about beefing up a C36 for a little blue water sailing.  I'm still having trouble finding a 80's C34 in anything better than fair shape.  Let me know how you make out or if you change your mind.

[Jim Price]

Rick, check the boats for sale on the C site.  I know the 1988 tall rig listed here in Atlanta is a great boat with lots of improvements.  It has a caring owner.  Only reason it is for sale is owner has new 350 in the yard waiting commissioning.  Check it out.

[Norris Johnson]

Rick,
If you're looking for a Marina on the Texas coast, be sure and check out Serendipity Resort and Marina in Palacios. We have the best sailing bay on the Gulf coast. You can sail for 3 to 4 hrs before tacking and the depth is 8 to 12 ft. We have floating docks, but they are 20 yrs old.  There are available slips at this time. I have no ties to Serendipity other than I rent a slip from them for $145 a month.
Norris