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Author Topic: Racor filter  (Read 280 times)

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Ed Shankle

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Racor filter
« on: October 17, 2021, 05:27:04 PM »

My marina has gone to full service since last year and require all maintenance to be done by the marina. This year when doing the fall decom, they changed from the Racor R24S that I’ve aways used, to a R24P. In other words, 2 microns to 30 microns. What are your thoughts on this? Anyone else using the R24P?
Thanks and regards,
Ed
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Ed Shankle
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Salem, MA

Breakin Away

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2021, 07:41:12 PM »

My marina has gone to full service since last year and require all maintenance to be done by the marina. This year when doing the fall decom, they changed from the Racor R24S that I’ve aways used, to a R24P. In other words, 2 microns to 30 microns. What are your thoughts on this? Anyone else using the R24P?
Thanks and regards,
Ed
For primary filtration, I use the R24P, and I'm happy with it. (I believe that in Racor's terminology, the P stands for "primary", while S stands for "secondary".)

The whole idea of the primary filter is to take out only the large stuff, which extends the life of both the primary and secondary filters. This practice of "staged filtration" is commonly used in industrial filtration to minimize shutdowns of production lines for filter changes.

I believe that Universal's secondary filter is 10 micron (though Universal seems to keep the exact specs secret), so your 2 micron R24S removes everything and leaves nothing for the Universal to take out. That means that your primary filter clogs sooner, and your secondary filter lasts forever (or until the adhesives holding it together, or the binders holding the filter paper together give out from long-term exposure to diesel fuel). I don't know where you buy your filters, but my Racors cost about twice as much as my secondary filters, so I'd rather have the Racor last as long as possible. Using the 30 micron Racor extends its life and keeps it better in balance with the secondary filter.

There's also a potential problem with too much resistance in the 2 micron filter. The Racor is on the suction side of the lift pump, and many pumps are better at "pushing" than they are at "sucking". So your system may perform better with a lower resistance (larger pore size) primary filter upstream of the lift pump. (Note that I'm not familiar with the specific pumping characteristics of Universal's lift pumps.)

Others may feel differently, so I suspect they will chime in.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 07:49:36 PM by Breakin Away »
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Jon W

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2021, 08:20:56 PM »

I have a Racor Series 215R spin on and use the R15T 10 micron element as my primary between the tank and Facet lift pump. I attached a couple of PDF's I've come across over the years for reference. Racor is not specific in their installation notes. They say typically the primary is rated for 30 microns, but a 10 micron can also be used.

Does full service marina mean you can not work on your boat in the marina?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 08:27:00 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2021, 10:19:56 PM »

Ed,

Your marina is spot on. 
There's a document from Racor (now Parker Hannifin) that says to NOT use the 2u as a primary.  Jon's reasoning is spot on why.  I read it a few years back but did not save a copy.

The whole sequence is backward anyway.  By rights, the secondary spin-on should be 1st in line to pick up the big stuff and then the Racor to filter the small stuff (and water.)  The other fubar is that neither filter should be engine-mounted.  A filter's efficiency is due to not only the media -- it's partially due to the "filter cake" that develops -- creating further (finer) filtering.   So engine vibration can affect the filter cake and can counteract what the manufacturer (partially) counts on for efficiency.

There are two ways to describe filter efficiency -- nominal which is like Half the time it captures "Xu", and absolute, or It *always* captures "Yu." 

The filter ratings are a big game that they play.  Filters are rated by beta ratios when subjected to NIST standard testing.  But .... (FOR INSTANCE) the "Racor 2u" is NOT a 2u cartridge - it's 4u absolute and probably about 10u nominal.   "the 2 micron branding on our filters is a leftover from pre NIST counting standards (from before Wally started here in 1981) and is more of a marketing name than a designation based on test data.” –Parker Hannifin, Racor Division 8/8/2012 email   

Ain't that some bullcrap?  A marketing name, not an actual rating.  Such are the thieves with no conscience who sell stuff to unknowing boat owners.

Here are the efficiencies that I have:

Secondary filter:

Fleetguard   FF5226, FF42003
65% efficient @ 2u;
82% efficient @ 10u; 98.67% efficient @ 20u

Fram   P7514    C6921
82% efficient @10u; 97% efficient @20u

Universal   298854   ? nom; 25u abs
Kubota     15221-43170 (same as Universal)

WIX   33389
“10 nominal” – “We don’t supply beta ratios”  (then sorry, I don't buy Wix or NAPA.)
NAPA 3389

Unknown %:
Purolator      F50262
AC             TP1200
Hastings      FF1119
CARQUEST  86390, 86582

Racor:

Racor 120 (rated 15 gph)
Racor R12S “2u” cartridge - NOT!
98% @ 4u
“10u” cartridge - 98% @ 10u
"30u" cartridge – 98% @ 30u

Caveat: I know one who runs only the Universal or Kubota "secondary" filter on a Universal M4-30, and has done just fine for 20 years.
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Jim Hardesty

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2021, 04:39:33 AM »

Quote
* Fuel Filtration From trawlerforum.pdf
* Rich H from the sailboatowners.pdf

Interesting reading, thanks.   I was wondering how much fuel polishing is accomplished by the returning, unused, filter fuel.  As the fuel pump is electric the flow is independent of the fuel burned, so if the flow rate is known, that minus the burn rate should be the filtered fuel returned to the tank.  Polished?
Any body care to give a swag?  Or am I looking at it wrong?
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
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Ed Shankle

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2021, 05:11:17 AM »

Jim and Ken, thanks for all the good information! Can always count on forum members to provide deep background.
Jon, essentially anything that involves creation of hazardous waste, be it solid, liquid or aerosol. E.G. bottom sanding, oil changing, pickling the engine. I can wax the hull and with permission, install my winter cover.  If it’s a shrink wrap, the yard does it (to avoid errant heat gun accidents, which I was a victim of a couple of times when I had my homemade tarp).
Actually, as I age I don’t mind so much. The yard has a stronger maintenance crew than previously, so I’m more trusting of their work - so far.
Regards,
Ed
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Ed Shankle
Tail Wind #866 1989 m25xp
Salem, MA

Stu Jackson

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2021, 10:41:15 AM »

OK, skippers, let's do The Filter Dance yet again.

From the 101 Topics:

Fuel Filtration 101 (with both primary Racor and secondary engine filter identification)
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1124.0.html and http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6475.0.html

The first link, in Reply #7, includes this information:

 S - 2 micron BROWN; T - 10 micron BLUE; P - 30 micron  RED
 
That means that P and S DO NOT necessarily mean Primary and Secondary.  They are simply the letters Racor chose to use.  If you wanna believe that's what they mean, and if you're right and I'm wrong, then fine.  If so, then what's the T for?  :D

But the bottom line is simply this:

The primary Racor filters we use on our fuel systems are grossly oversized for their use.  The flow rates tell you that.

The secondary on the engine is what it is, and IIRC, those 101 Topics links go into that information, too.

As an HVAC engineer, I can tell you that all filtering should be done with a coarser filter first and a finer one second.  For air, water or fuel.

The CHOICES you have are to use a 2 micron Racor or a 30 micron one on the primary.

But I have found it much easier to change the filter element in the filter under my head sink than the one on the engine, so I use a 2 micron in my Primary.

It's that simple and that's all there is to it.

I've been doing this for 20 years.  I just changed my secondary last year after maybe 10 years.

Your boat, your choice.  :D

PS - All this gone over in excruciating detail in the links, which is why I included it in the 101 Topics.  Nothing has changed in this issue in the past ten years.  But have at it if you will.  :D
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 11:15:20 AM by Stu Jackson »
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KWKloeber

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 11:27:47 AM »

Jim

The facet cubes are rated at 25-34 gph (have no clue which one Wb uses.)  I figure those are free flow, no back pressure.
At those rates fuel consumption is insignificant.
But the question is whether one leaves the fuel bypass (XP, etc.) open or closed. The tiny lines feeding the diesel return line likely pares back the flow significantly. 

On the B engines it would be easy to figure out flow with any container on the return line and a cell phone timer.

I’ve always felt it’s not a good idea leaving the bleed open because it could lead to filter blocking with a dirty fuel tank, maybe when you might need it most (Murphy.)  If the fuel’s clean the it doesn’t need polishing. 
I figure if the filtering delivers clean flow then why push the filters into what they’re “not there for”?

However, with those rated flows it seems to me (at first glance) that a second Racor could be plumbed in parallel to polish; possibly with a needle valve inline to tweak/balance the back pressure so as to not rob the injector pump. 
Anyone have thoughts on running two filters like that?
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KWKloeber

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 02:15:26 PM »

Though I've never thought about it before, it would appear that Jon is correct.

verbatim from Racor (my emphasis added):

Element Filtration Rating. Specify:
’S’ for 2 micron ("S"econdary/final filtration)
’T’ for 10 micron ("T"en micron for severe service)
’P’ for 30 micron ("P"rimary filtration).


I found the newest recommendation about the S cartridge.   It used to say Don't do it but apparently at some point has been softened to Don't do it unless you have an abundance of filtering capacity, which goes precisely to Stu's excellent point about the HUGE over-sizing of our Racor filters.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Jon W

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 05:25:46 PM »

Breaking Away suggested what the letters might represent.
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Jon W.
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San Diego, Ca

Paulus

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2021, 04:49:53 AM »

Thanks Stu for the reminder.  The last time we had this discussion(about 3yrs ago?) I bought a spare fuel pump.  It caused me to worry, I guess this happens in your 70's.  I definitely do not have the patience for repetitive dissertations.
Have a great day. :D
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KWKloeber

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Re: Racor filter
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2021, 09:04:54 PM »


Breaking Away suggested what the letters might represent.


Mea culpa Jon (and Breakin)!

Anyway, yes that's the designations.

As far as the pump pulling or pushing, when the topic of fuel lines come up on any forum there's usually chatter that the filter assembly likes pulling instead of pushing fuel thru it.   It's true the pump belongs after the primary filter but that's not the reason.  It's so that the pump doesn't hit the fuel first and emulsify any water into the fuel.  Then the Racor would become useless in removing the moisture.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain
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