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Author Topic: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.  (Read 248 times)

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WBev

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motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:49:58 AM »

New topic off the ?Sudden overheating topic, as this is different and an update to a similar topic over 10 years ago.

Sheared front motor mount bracket.

Universal/Westerbeke issued a recall 5/17/1994 on the motor mount bracket for "some Catalina's"  and specific, by its terms, to M-25XP and M-35(C) engines.  The bracket was sheering at the gusset, and a free replacement was available. I called Westerbeke and have not received a return call, yet. However, at some unknown date, they issued an updated service bulletin, available on their site, and stopped the "free" replacement, after several members posted about the issue around 2004. The updated service bulletin says the fracture is likely caused due to improper idle speed.  Because of this, I don't expect a return call from Bob Massanti (phonetic) the apparent customer service manager in parts.

The new part extends the support gusset by 1.5", to a total of 3.5". 

Looking online, part #302969 is the replacement part.  Online prices I found range from $200 on up to an absurd amount. 
Following Ken's suggestion on the ?Sudden overheating topic, I called Western Branch Diesel, and spoke with Kelly.  They don't have these in stock and Westerbeke can provide. I note, Western Branch Diesel is a retailer, with multiple stores, and a limited sales region area.  So, YMMV on purchases out of their region.  The part cost Kelly quoted is $207.80 plus shipping. The same price on the Westerbeke site. 

No retailer around me has them.  I have calls into welders to see if they can help.
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Wobegon II
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 #1211,  Wing/Tall Rig
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KWKloeber

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2021, 09:23:03 AM »

[edit]

Just for specificity, WBD is a Wb/Un stocking distributor.

How it works:
Distributors (besides selling to dealers) also sell to retail customers. 

Only the distributors are limited to only their distributor area, dealers are not. 
As I dealer, I could buy from my assigned distributor and ship to anywhere.  The only exception is one sales area in the US there is no independent distributor- it is factory direct (Wb itself is the distributor.)
To get dealer pricing in that location Wb requires the same ‘sales territory’ agreement with dealers as it has with its stocking distributors. [Distributor agreements restrict from advertising lower than the retail price (but are allowed to SELL at any price.]

My former distributor (Marysville Marine) was in MI, but had 5 (wholesale and retail) locations within its territory (which was from central NY to upper central US.)  When that distributor relinquished the dealership Wb said I had to have a brick/mortar location and couldn’t sell web-wise.
The Wb website lists the distributors on the website, and most of the distributors also list on their websites the dealers underneath them.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 09:28:05 AM by KWKloeber »
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KWKloeber

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2021, 09:42:54 AM »

>>> Toad lists what might be this part for about $800 each.  C'mon, they can't be serious can they?<<<

Toad website:
Part #302969 from Universal
Our price: $207.80 - each

(Probably not a stocked item)

If Wb has none in stock, they’ll put it into the mix to manufacture one - this has happened to me before on other hard parts/brackets.  (But with covid who knows when that will happen.)
If you search/phone around to other distributors and find one in stock I have gotten ones to ship out of their region by crying the blues and that the local distributor and the factory has none, so they agreed to ship to me outside the territory.

The CA distributor has a huge parts inventory-try there.


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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

WBev

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2021, 11:45:51 AM »

Thank you again, Ken. My search was for Universal engine mount bracket. The part that came up was 301057, and the price was $783.  This was the only one without a photo and the ones with a photo were clearly not what I needed. After your post, I punched in the part number, and I get the same result you did.  I didn't use the number the first time because the part number was from the 1994 service bulletin. I didn't guess they kept the same part number to date, having found a few other parts with new numbers from the original.

I am guessing you recommend replacing both at the same time, as if one cracked the other may even after 29 years.  I plan on doing so.
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Wobegon II
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Magothy River, MD

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2021, 12:36:09 PM »

My being frugal, my first choice would be to see if my welder could replicate the correct mount and upgrade the intact one w/ a better gusset.  YBYC!
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

WBev

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2021, 02:12:50 PM »

Frugal is good. 
Bob M of Westerbeke called me back.  He advised the update to the service bulletin (214) came out in November 2015. 
The updated part continues in production because it is used on a current block.

He also suggested, as many have here, I get my idle RPM's verified and not trust my tack, when putting into gear there should be a real clunk, and even 1100 RPM idle would not be too high.  Also, if this was caused by too low of an idle, then the fuel filter mount on the rear of the engine should be checked.  If one cracked through, the other is suspect.

I have a welder coming Sunday.
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Wobegon II
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Magothy River, MD

KWKloeber

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2021, 02:21:06 PM »

The filter bracket issue is also in the SBs on the Wiki and (IIRC) there's a sketch depicting the
"bad" vs. "good" bracket so you can determine which she has.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2021, 03:37:27 PM »

.......................................
He also suggested, as many have here, I get my idle RPM's verified and not trust my tack, when putting into gear there should be a real clunk, and even 1100 RPM idle would not be too high.  ..............................................

Yes, for those new here, we agree that we have been recommending this for many years.  You really don't need a clunk, but the transmission manual says 1100 to 1200 is just fine.

All the best with the welder.  IIRC, in addition to Ken's last post, the size of the plate is larger/longer, it's not just the gusset.

Pls let us know how it went, photos would be really helpful.
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KWKloeber

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2021, 06:50:47 PM »

[EDITED]

Quote

IIRC, in addition to Ken's last post, the size of the plate is larger/longer, it's not just the gusset.


The hole for the vibration isolator stud needs to be exactly the same distance from the engine mount land on both the old and new mounting brackets, so I don't see how a longer plate would have any purpose (in avoiding a crack at the termination of the gusset - see photo.)


Speaking of Westerbeke, I recently heard of TWO of the new, improved, alternator brackets busting due to Westerbeke's "Let's manufacture a mounting plate with large holes in it in order to weaken it at a key location, Ooops."
See photo.

Be cautious and check your alt brackets (and if there's any reason to remove it, have a welder reinforce it.)

Below also shows the difference between the new, improved and the ooops filter bracket.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 07:00:35 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2021, 09:46:07 AM »

Guys : WOW!  I'm not a super Engineer, but we were always taught to go for a radius bend.  Also wonder if they were using heat or just brute force  It almost looks like Westerbeke stock that they made the M35 series engine mounts was Tooo thin!!

A few thoughts
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Jim Fitch

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2021, 07:03:23 AM »

KW - I hope the welder already got you up and running.  I had two of these break years apart.  The second time was last year and there was no stock.  I think Hansen Marine said it would take a few weeks to get and I think it actually took 2 or 3 months before it got to me.  I had the broken one welded the next day with some reinforcements added.  I still haven't swapped it out for the new one but I need to hang onto the new part as a spare.  We extended the bottom support beyond the break and off to the side to allow the nut to fit on the engine mount.
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WBev

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2021, 10:40:45 AM »

My sheared bracket was welded Sunday, and I installed it Monday night as the bracket was too hot and I had night time plans. It went on in less than an hour, requiring no engine support to do so.  Not surprising as the three other supports may have held the engine for weeks before I found the shear.

The welder's opinion was the 3/16" stock was too thin, and at his shop they would use 1/4" to make them.   He did not believe the new style gusset would fix my bracket under the load, so he welded a piece to each side and a tab across the fracture.  The failure occurred where the original welder allowed an air gap, as it was rusted out of sight where the gusset meets the flat top piece.  Because of the thickness/thinness, the welder did not run the bead the entire length, and explained the heat from doing so could lead to more problems.

Also, the motor mount is pretty well done, so this winter I anticipate finding and installing the full set, and also replacing the cutlass bearing. More fun.

I still have to re-align the engine to the shaft, and I will re-pack the stuffing box in the water.  The box was leaking a lot over the last few weeks.  I tightened it a little last night but likely a little too much. (<1 drop/minute sitting) Should be fine for a short run through the channel to sail, but no long trip until re-stuffed.  Going with Ron's suggestion, the Gore packing was ordered.   Adjusting the stuffing box was easy, once I allowed the PB Blaster to work, at MaineSail's suggestion. Doing so also took much of the fear I had of repacking in the water. This is my first boat with this type of stuffing box, so it is new to me. I haul out 30+ miles away, at the end of November, so I need to have the auxiliary working.

Of note, this whole mess shows how one thing cascades to several others.  Without this website, and Ron Hill's patience with my emails,  I likely would be waiting still for a marine mechanic just to address the "diagnosed" catastrophic engine failure that was the fresh water circulation pump.  I bought the boat with confidence based upon this site, and I am really grateful for this organization.  I can't say that enough. 
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Wobegon II
1992 C-34 MK 1.5
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Magothy River, MD

WBev

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2021, 01:58:33 PM »

Westerbeke just emailed me the motor mount brackets are out of stock, and will take 4-6 weeks to make and ship. Funny, I ordered them while on the phone with the Service Manager, Bob M, who advised me they had one, and would split the shipment. I told him I was submitting the order and then we discussed a few other items on Service Bulletins. 
Glad I had the welding done.
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Wobegon II
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 #1211,  Wing/Tall Rig
Magothy River, MD

Ron Hill

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Re: motor mount bracket, M-35 et al.
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2021, 02:18:16 PM »

Guys : Now that you have the welded bracket installed and the engine realigned -- PLEASE take some white fingernail polish and make a 1/4" mark on the top nut side continuous to 1/4" on the engine bracket.  Now you have a slippage mark that you can visually see if that nut ever moves!!

If it has - just retighten the top nut until the two marks line up on the top nut and retighten the underside nut until it is very tight.  Your engine should be back in alignment!!  You don't have to start all over!!

A few thoughts
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