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Author Topic: Dutchman Monofilament Specs  (Read 381 times)

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Breakin Away

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Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« on: September 07, 2021, 10:14:01 PM »

My Dutchman monofilament broke for the second time this weekend. I need to replace it because it's clearly at the end of life due to UV degradation. I want to buy a genuine Dutchman replacement. A few months ago (when it broke for the first time) I called them and when they heard I had a C34 they immediately said "order the 40-2 system monofilament". I've downloaded the manual, and it says that 40-2 is 2.0 mm diameter. My monofilament measures 2.95 mm. I don't understand the discrepancy. Perhaps a previous owner "upgraded" the line. I'm nervous about getting something smaller than I already have, because a wet sail puts a LOT of weight on the monofilament. (I think that's how it broke, since it was raining and the sail was very heavy.) Also, if the discs have been "broken in" on larger monofilament, I'm concerned that a smaller monofilament may slip in the discs. (Just like a clutch doesn't grip an undersized halyard.)  I would just replace the discs with new ones, but not at $56 plus $17 shipping for two sets!

Have any of you replaced the Dutchman monofilaments? What diameter do/did you have?
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Dave Spencer

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2021, 04:23:26 AM »

Breakin,
About 10 years ago I spent some time floundering around looking for the Dutchman monofilament for our system.  One of the lines was broken when we bought the boat.  I finally gave up and used Dyneema line to do the job.  I don't recall the exact diameter but 7/64" sticks in my brain for some reason which is 2.77 mm.  I haven't had to change it in 10 years and it performs very well holding the sail in place without undue friction on the hoist or drop.   When the the comes to replace it, I'll use Dyneema again.   
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Dave Spencer
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Jim Hardesty

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2021, 05:40:30 AM »

I had a Dutchman system installed on my previous boat, worked great.  When it came time to change the monofilament lines my sailmaker recommended to just go to a good hardware or lawn equipment shop and buy string trimmer line.  As always his recommendation was absolutely correct.  I inspected every spring and replaced at the first sign of wear.
Just take a piece of your old line and match size.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Breakin Away

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2021, 07:44:35 AM »

I had a Dutchman system installed on my previous boat, worked great.  When it came time to change the monofilament lines my sailmaker recommended to just go to a good hardware or lawn equipment shop and buy string trimmer line.  As always his recommendation was absolutely correct.  I inspected every spring and replaced at the first sign of wear.
Just take a piece of your old line and match size.
Jim
How many seasons did you get out of the line before needing replacement? I'd prefer to get genuine Dutchman because unlike string trimmer line it's designed for UV stability and a smooth, friction-free finish. But I want to order the same diameter I had before, unless someone suggests a different size.

Dutchman's price for the line is not unreasonable (if it lasts longer than others), but their $17 shipping charge is ridiculous.
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Jim Hardesty

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2021, 09:19:56 AM »

Quote
How many seasons did you get out of the line before needing replacement?

Got two or three seasons.  Changed at the first sign of wear or damage.  Took it down every winter and was no trouble replacing in the spring.  I ended up marking the side of the Dutchman guides that the monofilament got feed thru so was dummy proof.  Never had a line break.  I doubt if Dutchman has monofilament made just for them.  Also marked the sail luff and leach for the folds with red and green markers so it got flaked the same every time.
Hope that helps,
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Breakin Away

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2021, 01:12:06 PM »

UV protection isn't terribly difficult to achieve, and I'd expect someone like Dutchman to have a supplier that can provide that for an application that has lots of sun exposure. But in the commoditized world of string trimmer and fishing line, where shaving every penny off the cost counts, I'd expect that there is not enough profit margin to provide UV protection for an application with only short-term sun exposure.

I ended up ordering some 600 lb test, 2.5 mm dia nylon spearfishing line. Nylon isn't great for UV stability, but I'll see how it holds up. I was initially going to buy clear, but at the last minute I decided to order black, since carbon black is a very good UV inhibitor.

In order to reduce weight aloft and reduce tangling and twisting when storing it out of season, I'm going to re-rig the whole thing as a "Type A" single line instead of the current "Type C" continuous loop. (See dutchmar.com to look up the difference.) I'll do this with my Type C hardware (instead of buying their Type A hardware), though I'll remove the clunky and heavy metal cam block from the system, which seems to chafe the double braid line a bit more than I'd like.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 01:13:21 PM by Breakin Away »
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Ron Hill

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2021, 02:22:42 PM »

Breaking : Let me Quote myself (posted this a number of times)......"If you talk to the manufacturer you are talking to the 'Horses Mouth' when you are getting information off of a BLOG - you don't know which end of the Horse is speaking"  !!!    :shock:

 I'd talk to Dutchman"  -  A thought 

A BLOG thought!  Don't have or know that much about a "Dutchman", but might ?? Gortex thread do the job??  It is tough and UV resistant!!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 02:35:03 PM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

Breakin Away

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2021, 02:37:21 PM »

Breaking : Let me Quote myself (posted this a number of times)...... " If you talk to the manufacturer you are talking to the 'Horses Mouth' when you are getting information off of a BLOG - you don't know which end of the Horse is speaking"  !!!    :shock:

 I'd talk to Dutchman"  -  A thought
I've already talked to Martin van Breems a couple of times (as I pointed out in my original post), to the point where I'm concerned I might wear out my welcome. He's been generally helpful, but he made a recommendations that doesn't seem to match up with my current reality. I have a 3 mm nylon line that lasted for 5 years (in addition to whatever time PO put on it), and Dutchman supplies a 2 mm nylon line that I'm concerned may break sooner., with shipping charges that are kind of crazy. Since it appears that the PO went with a 3rd party alternative that held up for a good number of years, I'm going to take a similar route.

I don't think the people here are horse's asses. I value their experience (especially since many have the Dutchman system), and have taken their advice into account as appropriate. This group is much more knowledgeable that what you'd find on Facebook.

Manufacturers are very knowledgeable too, but they are always going to recommend their own product over any alternative. I started out wanting to buy from him, but decided to try something different this time. I can always go back if it doesn't work out. It's not like the boat will crash if the monofilament breaks.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 04:06:18 PM by Breakin Away »
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Ron Hill

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2021, 03:08:31 PM »

Breaking : Of course the manufacturer is going to protect HIS product and HIS Repair parts!! (that's our BEEF with China)

If you are going to "out engineer" a manufacturer you need to find out what his determining factors are??  Cost?  Easy of Manufacturer? UV protection? Slide-ability?  just to mention n a few.  Like I said Gortex thread is tough and Kevlar thread is even tougher, but may be under cost prohibited unless you can get Kevlar scrap threads from a rotor blade manufacturer!?!?  Gortex thread is expensive, but almost UV bulletproof.

So find out those parameters (coyly) from the manufactures customer service and than do your engineering and cost trade offs!!

A few thoughts
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 03:12:05 PM by Ron Hill »
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Roland Gendreau

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2021, 05:18:45 PM »

I replaced my 8 year old monofilament lines last year.  I replaced them using the spare spool of monofilament line that I bought at the time I bought the Dutchman set up from Martin van Breems. So it must be the same as what they recommend using now.

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Roland Gendreau
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Breakin Away

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2021, 06:01:38 PM »

I replaced my 8 year old monofilament lines last year.  I replaced them using the spare spool of monofilament line that I bought at the time I bought the Dutchman set up from Martin van Breems. So it must be the same as what they recommend using now.
It would be very interesting if you could lay some calipers on that line and report the diameter. I'd like to see what they actually shipped vs. what the 15 year old documentation says. Maybe they increased the diameter since the information was printed.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 06:02:00 PM by Breakin Away »
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Roc

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2021, 04:52:53 PM »

I don't have my Dutchman instruction manual in front of me, but I do remember this.  On the last page, it says if you've read the whole manual, then Dutchman will give you a free set of monofilament lines.  At the Sailboat show, probably 10 years or so ago, I went to the Dutchman booth (this was before they were bought out), I told the fellow (I believe it was Martin) that I read the whole manual and came to get my free lines.  He handed me the lines.....   :thumb:
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Breakin Away

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2021, 05:59:44 PM »

I don't have my Dutchman instruction manual in front of me, but I do remember this.  On the last page, it says if you've read the whole manual, then Dutchman will give you a free set of monofilament lines.  At the Sailboat show, probably 10 years or so ago, I went to the Dutchman booth (this was before they were bought out), I told the fellow (I believe it was Martin) that I read the whole manual and came to get my free lines.  He handed me the lines.....   :thumb:
I also read the whole manual, and I tried the same thing a few years ago at the Annapolis show. Whoever was at the booth told me that they don't do that promotion any more.

I'm virtually certain that my old 3mm monofilament is not genuine Dutchman, because they don't supply that large a diameter. Nevertheless, it has lasted the 6 seasons I've had the boat, plus whatever time the previous owner had it. It is showing some pretty severe crazing at the top, and that's where the two breaks have occurred.

I've already re-rigged my continuous loop as a single-line "Type A" using my Type C clamps with the pass-through holes empty, and upgrading from my old, worn 1/4" loop line to brand new 5/16" double braid that I had originally bought for my C250. I also attached my pre-cut 2.5 mm 600# test black spearfishing line to the clamps. The whole thing is ready to go to the boat for installation this weekend. If it all works well, I will replace the topping lift tail with additional 5/16" double braid.

You should come over to the main harbor and see it sometime!
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bayates

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Re: Dutchman Monofilament Specs
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2021, 06:50:00 AM »

I bought Monofilament Fishing Leader Kit 100yds 2.4mm-600lb Clear off Amazon and it works perfectly.  I switch it about every 3 years.  I am switching the halyard and loop line next week as the loop line is finally worn enough that it is time. 
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Brian & Pat Yates
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