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Author Topic: New Standing Rigging  (Read 308 times)

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Bill Shreeves

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New Standing Rigging
« on: June 26, 2020, 02:16:17 PM »

I'm about to pull the trigger on having a local rigger replace my standing rigging.  I'm very surprised after sending an email asking about a warranty on his work.  He replied that there is no warranty expressed or implied after the mast is stepped

Really?  Is this customary?  WTF can I do with the mast un-stepped?
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Bill Shreeves

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 02:21:14 PM »

Just got this reply to my inquiry on why:

I can try to explain further on the phone, but there is no one who will warrant standing rigging on a sailing vessel. The loads on the standing rigging are unknown. If standing rigging breaks, it’s always due to misuse, neglect, or forces incurred not from sailing.
I can guarantee that all cables are the correct diameter and length, nothing more.
Feel free to call.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Jim Hardesty

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2020, 04:02:16 AM »

Quote
I can guarantee that all cables are the correct diameter and length, nothing more.

Bill,
Are you having the rigger only make the cables or is he going to step the mast and tune rig?  If he is only making up the cables, that's all he can be responsible for and he should stand behind that work.
FWIW Most damaged rigs I have seen were caused by mistakes stepping/unstepping or storing.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Bill Shreeves

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2020, 06:15:29 AM »

Just fab and attach to the mast.  I intend to step and tune.  That said, a fellow c34 owner at my marina had his standing rigging replaced last winter by a rigger not, the marina, and stepped with the marina.  He's told me he's having a difficult time centering the mast in the partner with wedges and tuning.  So, he's decided to have a rigger do that and use Spartite.   I haven't been able to get to the marina for a long time and I'm not sure what the challenge has been.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Ron Hill

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2020, 01:54:44 PM »

Bill : When I had all of my rigging done by Cheaspeake Bay Rigging.  He had me sail for a month and then I came back and we re-tuned and inspected all of the rigging - especially the swedges.  All was OK and hadn't had a problem sense.  :D

A thought
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mdidomenico

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2020, 03:23:34 PM »

not to diverge the thread too far, but since i'm about to replace my standing rigging as well, i was curious if anyone had replaced there's with dyneema instead of wire?  (fyi, i'm not starting a debate, plenty PLENTY of other forums where that's been debated)

to swing back to the original topic, i had replaced the rigging on my C250 a few years ago.  no warranty was ever expressed and i hadn't thought enough about it to ask.  but i'm fairly confident the answer would have been none had i asked.  so i don't think it's that uncommon.  i would expect at the very least though if the wire pulled out of a swage in a relatively short time frame that the rigger would fix that.
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1989 Cat34 #856, original mxp-25a

Bill Shreeves

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 08:55:23 PM »

I had a chance to talk to the rigger and he gave me good reasons for not having a warranty.  The 15-20 minute discussion boiled down is: the rig is built per the designer's specs and it is the designers responsibility to properly size the rigging.  It should be designed to handle at least  twice the maximum design loading's.  The rigging will be replaced with the cables and fittings specified by the builder/designer and no rigger would warranty based on someone else's specs.  He also said that he's been a rigger for more than 25 years with the last 10 in his own business and this was the first time someone asked about a warranty.  Not sure how much water that would hold but, intended  or not, I took it as a compliment.  I told him I'm a newbie with just 4 seasons under my belt with a keel sailboat and I'm not afraid to ask any question.  He said many customers visit his shop and I'm welcome to be there when they fab my rigging.  I told him he can count on it.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Ron Hill

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2020, 02:39:15 PM »

Bill : I watched and "helped" with each shroud and swedge.  Like I said I sailed for a month on the Chesapeake and then we both re-inspected each swedge and shroud. Then retuned and readjust the head stay.  I also change the roller furling when we did that re-rig.        I'd do the same procedure over again.

Every cable end was an exact match of the Catalina factory part and came from Faucets!!

A few thoughts

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Ron, Apache #788

Bill Shreeves

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2020, 07:26:37 PM »

Thanks Ron.  A very long story short, I had planned on doing it all myself over last winter with mechanical fittings.  The virus was only one of many things that conspired to keep me from getting anything done on 3 major projects I started in Nov & Dec.  I hope to get back to working on the boat next weekend.  For time sake, I decided to go with a rigger on the Eastern Shore so I can focus on the mast support block rebuild and keel re-bed.  I'm really hoping to launch sometime in August and salvage a few months of the sailing season on the Bay.  Keeping finger crossed.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

TortolaTim

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2020, 11:56:32 AM »

This is a timely post as I was just thinking of the same thing. My question....I'm having my boat shipped to the Jacksonville, FL area from MI this summer as we are permanently relocating there. Since the mast will be stepped and all the rigging will be off the boat, would I be dumb not to replace the standing rigging at this time? I was planning on being on the hard to re-do the bottom paint and change the prop before I launch, and am in no huge hurry because of hurricane season. My boat is a 1989, and I have no idea if the standing rigging has ever been replaced. I've only owned it for a year.
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Tim Callico
1989 C34 #957
M25XP
St Clair Shores, MI

Bill Shreeves

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 02:08:44 PM »

I am replacing mine for the following reason's, in no particular order:
     Experts say rigging life-cycle is 10 or so years depending on mileage
     I suspect that it's original on my '87 boat, although I don't know for certain
     It appears to be in acceptable condition however, you can't see metal fatigue
     Yes, many boats out there 30 - 40 years old with original standing rigging but, you never know and someone cold get hurt
     I don't know how much I trust it for the next 10+ years
     The mast is down so I can work on the mast step block and re-bed the keel so, get while the gettin's good
     Un-stepping / re-stepping the mast it expensive in these here parts
     No, I don't loose sleep over the old rigging but, I'd be able to trust it
     I'd feel better knowing its new before venturing up the mast my first time
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Jon W

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 04:50:08 PM »

FWIW -

When I bought my 1987 no one knew the age of the standing rigging. When I pulled the mast I replaced all of it, and upgraded the fore and aft lowers to 5/16” and replaced the tangs (cracks) so all is now 5/16”. This is also when I repainted parts of the mast, added a LED tricolor/anchor light combo on top of the mast, added a second conduit run inside the mast, re-riveted the OEM conduit, new VHF coax and antenna and wires, added LED spreader lights, added radar, and a t-track on the mast to store and set my whisker pole safely. I would do the same again.

If you intend to keep and sail your boat for the next 10 years, and suspect the age is 10+ years old bite the bullet and change it, plus do everything else you’ve been planning while the mast is down. I know money plays a role, and only you know your boat bucks.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

Ron Hill

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 04:57:45 PM »

Bill : As I recall we swedged each fitting 3 times - first then turned 90 degrees then turned 90 degrees again.  It was pointed out to me (as a absolute RULE)  that you never swedged a fitting more than 3 times!! That tended to make the fitting wall too thin and it could loose strength !!

A few thoughts
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TortolaTim

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 05:07:41 PM »

Jon, I'm kind of leaning toward replacing it. I looked on CD's site and the lowers were all 1/4". Did you have everything made custom? How much did it cost, if you don't mind my asking?
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Tim Callico
1989 C34 #957
M25XP
St Clair Shores, MI

Jon W

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Re: New Standing Rigging
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2020, 05:41:37 PM »

Yes, the standing rigging was custom made by a local rigger. The standing rigging material cost was ~$2,100. The largest dollar amount was for the 8 new open body chromed bronze turnbuckles for 5/16" wire.

This is also a good time to check all of your chainplates. I dye penetrant inspected the 3 port and 3 starboard. All were good, but needed re-bedding. I found a few small cracks on the stemhead. The OEM on my boat was 1/4" with a doubler welded at the end to be thicker locally. I didn't feel that was a very robust design and with a few cracks found, I replaced it with an upgraded 3/8" SST continuous piece. FYI - I also had a new double bow roller made and installed at this same time.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 05:49:20 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca
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