Messages

Opps, forgot pic 0593.

The second four pictures. Good luck

Hello Paul
Your picture suggests you may have some rot in the plywood in the deck. I had the same problem with the starboard vented stanchion over the galley. I removed the vented stanchions on both sides in 2012, repaired bad plywood on the starboard side, reinstalled with epoxy'd in aluminum backing plates,  and took lots of pictures. Thought you might like to see some.
The stanchions came off easily but the job grew in complexity when we found we could not gain enough access to the deck underside (stbd side). We removed the galley shelf with the sliding doors. This is quite a hassle but don't give up; it will come out mostly in one piece but it was a pain (left a few scratches). We had removed the teak trim screwed to the vertical 'lip' of the deck 'head liner' which covers the wiring running fore and aft along the hull. Working with mirrors or lying on your back across the galley wasn't working so we gave up and cut out a piece of the lip of the deck liner. This greatly improved access for sanding the underside of the deck and removing any gobs or resin left by the factory. I don't believe this is a structural issue since it's only about three inches from the hull/deck joint. It could be glassed back in if necessary.
These are my pictures with comments. Some of these pics might be in separate posts.

3857:    Galley stanchion and vent tube removed. Teak trim removed. Shelf still in. AC & DC wiring still in. Downward 'lip' of the deck head liner still in tact.

3858:   All the above still in. Looking up through a mirror. Impossible to do the surgery we needed and bond in a plywood and a backing plate. We had already determined some plywood was bad. Not sure how far?

3864:   Close up from below

3866:   Now we're talking!  AC & DC out. Big cut out made in the deck liner 'lip'. Probably did not have to go quite so far aft but be sure to leave the ~3/4 inch piece at the forward end as backing for reinstalling the teak trim. Note the shelf is still in.

0281:   OK- Shelf finally out. Now using this multi tool/saw, we cut through the bottom layer (skin) of the deck sandwich to see how bad the plywood looked.  We cut out the same size chunk of plywood. Go easy, don't cut into the top layer of deck. Not difficult since it's much harder.

0282:   Mush a replacement square of plywood with thickened epoxy (with maybe some micro fibres and some anti sag), brace it firmly with a prop. I don't remember if we epoxy'd back in the the thin piece of bottom skin we had first cut out. Seems hardly necessary.

0283:   Looking down on the deck at the epoxy'd in plywood. Use the end of a match stick take out some of the epoxy from the bolt holes if necessary so you have a good guiding hole for re drilling.

0584:   Plate installed and drilled, holes potted a la Maine Sail, stanchion installed, bedded with Life Caulk. Some Life Caulk squeezed through around the vent tube.

0593:   Port side stanchion over nav station. No plywood was rotten here so access must have been tolerable, even though we did NOT remove the shelf or cut out a piece of the 'lip' of the head liner. Nor did we remove the wiring (much more on port side).This pic shows what working through a mirror is like (the wide bolt holes are outboard). If you are using a mirror, make up a thin spacer (cardboard or real thin ply) to hold mirror in place (white piece at bottom of pic) or else you'll be picking up the mirror repeatedly after it falls down.



My recollection of the exact order of the steps we took to carry out this project is a bit fuzzy (2012) but I think  it was something like this:
After bonding in the plywood and letting it cure, we lathered up the backing plate with epoxy (enough to fill the voids and seal around the outside edge of the plywood, then pushed it up into place ensuring all the deck holes were covered and that it extended out beyond all four edges of the plywood and would bond to some of the original bottom skin of the deck. We again propped up this plate tight in place, making sure it did not slip out of position while applying pressure with the prop. The plate had no holes drilled at this time. The exact size and shape of the plate was previously determined with lots of dry fitting.
After this cured, and with the prop still tightly in place and using the deck holes as guides, we carefully drilled the four bolt holes through the plywood and plate. Use a one inch (I think) hole saw for the vent tube. Pot  and bevel the holes following Maine Sail's excellent instructions:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck

I bedded the stanchions with Boat Life Life Caulk. Two years later both stanchions had to be removed again. The port one was bent from a minor accident lifting our engine out and the starboard one leaked a few drops ever so slightly. I rebedded with Butyl  and no leaks so far.

Hi Paul
This situation I had in 2013 may be relevant.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8262.msg57969.html#msg57969

The soft plugs that were pushed up in the stanchion tube were spun cotton or more likely synthetic (nylon/poly something). Don't know it they were to keep insects out or dust/dirt. They did restrict escaping air so much that water often bubbled up while filling, long before the tank was full. On reinstalling, I did NOT put in any filter material.
By the way, just look at the stanchion base on deck to see if you have three bolts or four. Very unlikely that it's three.
For inspecting from below, using a mirror is mandatory although figuring where is outboard and inboard takes a bit of getting used to. When I did mine (both sides in 2013) I removed the galley shelf in which the small white doors slide. A bit of a job, but the only way to get real access to the underside of the deck. That allowed me to sand the underside to take off any gobs of resin etc, then bed in a backing plate and get the four washers and nuts on, then the vent tube and hose clamp. The tube and clamp can actually be put on 'by feel' later if you wish after the shelf is back in place.
I would NOT run the vent tube to another place such as the stern of the boat, nor would I put an additional vent fitting in the side of the hull.

Thanks Dave & Steve
The stanchions had gone back on before my original post (without any plug and without straightening the raised base plates). I was primarily interested in what people thought about not straightening the base plates and filling with BUTYL. You both seem to concur. By the way, I took Mainsail's advice to not tighten down too hard initially, but come back several times over next few days/weeks and tighten a little more. Each time we would squeeze out more butyl and that's good, cause I was worried about the rather thick 'pad' of butyl necessary to fill the void under the raised portion, and whether it would squeeze out appropriately. It had rained several days through all of this and no leeks at any stage.

Steve: see you're from Etobicoke. My boat #647 was originally owned by someone from Burlington and sailed out of Mimico Sailing Club.It was named 'For Pete's Sake'. I used to race a Shark out of Kingston, often in Toronto, Port Credit, Hamilton and St Catherines. No racing these days! Only two sails: one on the front, one on the back, and they don't look like much (think the main is original!) Lots of great cruising though, in the Pacific North West.

This is tedious!

Pics for the bent plates

Had to remove both Stbd and Port midship stanchions since both had been heavily 'leaned on' while fending off during less than perfect docking manoeuvres resulting in plate distortion and small water leaks.
I recalled when filling the Stbd water tank earlier this year, water often bubbled (erupted) up the intake even the tank was not full. So when the stanchion came off, looking up the vent pipe I discovered this plug - filter? I extracted it by blowing on the upper small vent hole, while holding a finger over the lower small hole. It came out in pieces. Picture 2236 (2).
Q1 Anyone ever seen this? Is it required (keep the bugs out?) I think some insect may have been in mine.

When re bedding both sides, I decided to leave the distortion (raised outboard edge) in the plates and bed with lots of butyl (as per MAINSAIL with countersunk holes etc) I'm sure those stanchions will get "PUSHED ON" again and if the plates were flattened out back to their original shape, then they would simply lift again (more easily) and leak again. It is true that re installing them with their raised plates forms a larger dam holding slightly more water on the uphill side of the stanchion along the deck at the rail, but there is always water held there anyway. The distortion is about 3/16" at its max. see pics 2223 and 2222
Q2 Any thoughts? (even though they're already back on). I'll try to report next year.

Gerry Douglas suggests rounding or 'radiusing' the corners of any access hole cut in the fiberglass subfloor under the cabin sole, to prevent stress cracks from forming at the corners over time.

Look at this. He used nylon tie wraps (wire ties) to fill up the hole that was stripped (probably because they reused the same 2&1/2" lag bolts even after adding the 3/8" plate). The end is on quite an angle either because successive re-tightenings for alignment drove it off, or my attempts to drill small hole for screw extractor pushed it crooked (don't think so).

Using the jig and hole saw without the pilot bit, partway into the engine bed.

IT'S OUT !!!!
I finally have the broken piece of lag bolt out. My attempts with the screw extractor were a failure. After 'flattening' the top with a grinding stone somewhat, I managed to drill into the broken piece with a 7/64" cobalt bit (more new tools) about 3/16" (very hard drilling). Not enough to get the extractor to bite. Trying to drill a bit deeper, the bit slid off and my small hole was ruined.
PLAN B
Use a 1" hole saw to take out a plug and the broken piece. Success!
I had to build a jig since the pilot bit in the hole saw mandrill doesn't work in mid air (the original lag bolt hole). So, drilled through some plywood using the hole saw with the pilot bit in, then affix the plywood as a jig right over the engine bed hole with the broken piece. This allowed me to use the jig as a guide to get the hole saw (without pilot bit) started in the fiberglass. When down far enough, remove the jig and carry on.

Pics:
1993:   jig upside down
2001    part way in, jig still in place. remove jig later and drill further
2006    look at the sucker!

Hey guys:
I got my fractions wrong in Reply #7!  7/64 ths is just under 1/8" not 1/4". Became clear to me as I was pulling the bit out of the index. That was after I BROKE the 5/64" bit (as expected).

Thanks Craig. I did think of that but they don't seem to make hole saws smaller than 5/8". I think 1/2" would be about right with an inside diameter of 3/8+" to just fit over the broken 3/8" piece. I may try to make up something out of a piece of pipe.

This may be stretching this topic but ....
Has anyone ever tried to install an ISOTEMP SPA 30 Marine Water Heater 8 Gallon (21" by 15")
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|2234308|2234311&id=2357736
This looks like a nice system (relative to my rusty old Seaward) and it has nice temperature control.

Yes it would take lots of surgery:
cut the rounds of the door opening (same door might go back on)
lower or remove the present shelf
shorten or remove the shelf for the pressure pump (like in Mike Vaccaro's article)
http://www.c34.org/mainsheet/pdf/May_2008.pdf

I've done lots of measuring and it might work. However with my current problems, this would be a ways off!
BTW all the Seawards are shown on Defender as well.