Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: SV Pretty Lady on May 18, 2018, 09:40:41 AM

Title: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on May 18, 2018, 09:40:41 AM
Hello. As I am working aft right now, I see there is some water under the prop shaft that has seeped over into the area under the sink, as well as seeping through the wall between the engine and head sink (I can see the water under the bottom part of the stairs by the wall. I see water sitting in the shower drain, too. My question is: Are these areas supposed to drain into the bilge? I ran the shower pump before removing head, but the water is still in there. I can get pictures later after work, if needed.

Thanks for any help

1988 C34
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: mark_53 on May 18, 2018, 10:16:01 AM
I think you will have water in the shower sump if you used the shower recently.  The pump has to push the water up above the waterline to the anti-siphon valve so any water in the hose before it reaches the anti-siphon will just fall back in the sump.
All other water in the boat should drain into the bilge except maybe small pockets trapped under the engine.  Is your stern weighed down so as to make water flow towards the stern?
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on May 18, 2018, 10:53:09 AM
I haven't used the shower, but I have a mystery leak that drains from the walls on port side to the shower floor. Stern shouldn't be weighed down too much. I do have a mattress in aft cabin that is heavy, but it shouldn't be enough to weigh it down. All the water was there before I put the mattress in, too.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Fred Koehlmann on May 18, 2018, 01:48:26 PM
Water in different areas can come from different sources. under your prop shaft, I'd expect it to come from your stuffing box, which is pretty normal. If that is excessive then gently tightening the nut can reduce the flow. Just make sure there's still adequate stuffing and your not over tightening.

Under the sink and elsewhere could be coming from loose claps or leaking hoses. Engine vibration over the years can cause wear on hoses that are resting or up against rougher fibreglass areas. Check to make sure they're not leaking. Sometimes slipping a sacrificial piece of hose around your other hoses will allow them to last longer.

Water just under the stair, but on top of the flooring, I found came from the behind the engine area when we would heel and the water the accumulated there couldn't go down the narrow centred drain hole/pipe to the bilge. It instead would flow beside the engine and out the front into the cabin.

We had a MkII and that shower drained into a hose and you had to turn on a pump to force it out (same pump for draining the ice-box). No shower sump box. So unless the pump was on it wouldn't drain. Earlier models might be different.

You also mention a "mystery leak that drains from the walls on port side to the shower floor". Have you checked your deck fitting on the port side by the head? This might be a source. Not exactly there, but in behind the electrical panel we had a leak that caused an electrical short. This turned out to be the holding tank vent line that went to a port stanchion vent. We ended up cutting the through deck fitting off, fiberglassing the deck hole shut re-bed the stanchion and re-vent the tank forwards. The electrical was nice and dry after that.

Best of luck on your leak hunt.

Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Jon W on May 18, 2018, 02:26:09 PM
Water in the shower drain could be run back after running the sump pump. An inline check valve after a inline strainer helps solve this.

A port side leak point I have is the opening Beckson port in the head. If you have one, check that the gasket seals properly. When it leaks, water pools behind the toilet then empties into the shower “gutters” and drain hole.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on May 20, 2018, 06:58:57 PM
Fred.....the leak from the black tank vent out the stanchion leaked all over my electrical for who knows how long before I bought the boat. I fixed that problem today. Took the leaky hose off and plugged the bottom of the stanchion. I put some duct tape as a temporary fix over the vent hole in the stanchion. Since I have a compost head now, I don't need that vent, as I plan to vent the compost out of the pump out on port side. I will be taking it out and putting a mushroom vent in it's place this week.

Mystery leak in bathroom....water is running along the trim behind the head. It is actually behind the trim and drips down onto the seat next to the head. I have no idea where this water is coming in.

I pumped out the shower drain water with the old pump ( I haven't installed the whale gulper yet), only to have it siphon back. Ran the pump again, and it seems to be gone for now.

Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Jon W on May 20, 2018, 08:16:44 PM
Have you checked for leaks from the winch, cleat, solar vent, handrail on the cabin top, and the Genoa track? I think there’s a lifeline stantion inside the cabinet also.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 12, 2018, 08:47:05 AM
Looks like there is a leak coming from the prop shaft and the water pools right there behind the engine. Not happy about this one.

Engine is Universal 25XP  #501070

The vented stanchion on port where the hose from the black tank was connected to leaks, even though I plugged it and temporarily taped the opening in the stanchion. Must be faulty seal.

Some detectable water stains under forward cushion area coming from anchor box. But not much and no pooled water.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Noah on June 12, 2018, 09:01:22 AM
The prop shaft is supposed to “leak” if you have a standard stuffing box and not a PSS dripless model. You can adjust the amount of drips by tightening the stuffing box and dependent on the type of packing you use, should likely drip a few drips per minute while shaft is turning to cool the shaft and may or may not drip while shaft is not turning.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 12, 2018, 09:42:08 AM
Here are a couple pictures of the prop shaft. The pool of water has since evaporated and there is a smaller puddle.

Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: KWKloeber on June 12, 2018, 09:53:56 AM
That doesn't look like shaft log hose.  I'd check and if necessary tend to that at next haul out.

Post some more pics of the iron genny and we'll tell you what model it is. Likely an M-25, but...

-k
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 12, 2018, 10:10:15 AM
Engine pics
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: KWKloeber on June 12, 2018, 10:36:05 AM
Pretty,

You have an M-25XP (with 97.7% certainty) an earlier model (OEM to the boat.) 

On which the PO has replaced the original thermostat cap with the cap on later model XPs (to install a hi-temp alarm switch in place of the temp alarm circuit board on the panel that went bad.)  And there has been some unknown amt of harness rewiring.

(Just to hedge that 2.3%, a VERY SLIM possibility that it's one of the last M-25s off the line (1986) that incorporated some changes adopted into the M-25XP.  But my money goes on the XP, double or nothing.)

If you can reach it, snap a pic of the side of the engine block, aft of the injection pump, above the fuel filter.  The engine size is cast into the block. 
If it's "9xx cc" = a M-25XP.  "8xx cc:" = M-25

-k

Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Noah on June 12, 2018, 10:55:33 AM
It looks like you have an old-style PSS-dripless system, not a traditional stuffing box. So it should NOT  drip/leak at all. But your photos are a bit fuzzy as is my experience with that system. Other readers are sure to weigh-in with “correct” info as I may be incorrect.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Roc on June 12, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
You have a PSS dripless seal that should not leak.  However, in looking at your picture, the bellows isn't in a straight line.  In other words, the left end (connected to log) is higher than the ss rotor side on the right.  It dips down and it should be straight.  Since the bellows is not straight, there is probably more stress on one side over the other, causing the ss rotor not to be perfectly flush with the carbon ring.  It seems like the shaft is grossly out of center with the log.  The shaft may pass through without touching, however it's not passing straight and centered through the shaft log (it's going through at an angle).
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Fred Koehlmann on June 12, 2018, 08:28:06 PM
Also, with the dripless style, you need to be aware of the rubber's age and flexibility. As it ages the rubber gets harder and less flexible. I don't remember how often they need to be replaced, but you might want to check that out as well.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 15, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
I will get more pictures of the engine on Sunday when I am back on the boat. I will try to get better pictures of the shaft, too. My phone is old. Sorry for the poor quality.

The PO wiring leaves something to be desired....what a mess! Major mess.

I thought the shaft looked off. It leaks pretty bad when I motor somewhere. Sitting at the dock, it drips a little. The out of alignment makes me feel pretty uneasy. Is this a difficult repair?
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Noah on June 15, 2018, 04:06:04 PM
I am not a expert on PSS dripless shaft seals however, I do know if the bellows fails (rubber tears/cracks or becomes unattached) it will flood the boat and could sink you. I would have someone “knowledgeable” take a look at it before you go motoring. At the least, download and read the system’s manual to understand how it should work and how to maintain it.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 25, 2018, 11:46:59 AM
The shaft seal unit is very loose. I barely touched it and it moved, which allowed water to spew in. Almost like the shaft fell off because i could easily move it up and down. I managed to get it back to a drip and had the marina order a PYI unit for my shaft size. Waiting on the part. Hope to get it fixed ASAP.

Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: KWKloeber on June 25, 2018, 12:02:40 PM
SV,

One of the possible issues is the shaft log. 
Sometimes there isn't enough free length to get a good purchase on and the best seal on the log. 

I can't say whether that's a "sometimes" on the C34, but on the C30, the fiberglass at the hull has to ground down a little to get more clearance to fully slip a correct log hose onto the log, instead of using plain'ole water hose.

-k
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 25, 2018, 01:17:02 PM
More pics of the engine..
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: KWKloeber on June 25, 2018, 02:38:37 PM
Your model is right there = M-25XP 
s/n 501070 (as best I can read from on an angle.)

More pics if you have any other questions or need more "diagnosis".   :D

MORE:
I don't know what you have going on there w/ the low oil pressure switch, not the OEM configuration.  Maybe someone installed a Tee fitting or an elbow to turn it sideways?

Someone did some rewiring, but they didn't know ABYC code.  Don't know what the YELLOW is to the 12v positive "B" (battery) post on the starter solenoid.  Yellow is an alternate color for negatives, shouldn't be on the solenoid except to the "S" (start) terminal, and then it should be yellow/red stripe (color for a start circuit.)

-k
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on June 28, 2018, 10:05:03 AM
KW....The wiring is a mess, everywhere. I'll clean it up once I get the other issues sorted out. I think my boat had 3 owners before me, so somewhere along the line, someone installed many little gauges and gadgets, but didn't clean up the wiring in the process. I'll post pics of the the nav station and the back of the control panel (stay seated for that picture haha).
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on July 03, 2018, 08:20:01 AM
nav station pictures and back of the panel
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 03, 2018, 08:48:12 AM
Typical Seaward wire bird’s nest!
Probably some loose crimp terminals. 

Your small gauge leads off the battery selector are incorrect. Heavy lugs/loads always go on connections first, followed by successively lighter terminals/loads.

k
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: Jon W on July 04, 2018, 08:53:41 AM
I thought the wiring behind my main panel was disorganized. You have a lot more gadgets than I do. Amazing it all fits back there.
Title: Re: Water under engine and where does it drain?
Post by: SV Pretty Lady on July 05, 2018, 12:55:20 PM
Thanks KW. I will take care of the gauge leads this weekend.

lol Jon mine is a mess. I've got wires hanging everywhere