Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: jfssail on May 11, 2022, 01:40:42 PM

Title: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: jfssail on May 11, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
I had a survey done yesterday on my 1993 Catalina 36 with Universal M35AC engine. The surveyor was concerned with a crack in the resin on both outboard sides of the engine stringer where it meets the hull.  He thinks a major structural repair is required.  I don't.,this area is usually dry.
I have owned this boat for 19 years, and as far as I can recall, the crack in the resin was always there, and does not pose a structural problem.
I know the 1990-1993 Catalina 34 has the same engine, the engine stringers are probably built the same as the C36. Have any Catalina 34 owners  noticed this crack in the resin?  The inboard joints appear to have no cracks where water collects.
Thanks for any owners that can comment on this.

Jack Stewart,1993 C36 #1233, Port Clinton, Ohio
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Jim Hardesty on May 12, 2022, 04:46:08 AM
Jack,
Not exactly the same problem, but when I first purchased Shamrock there was a crack like you described at the mast step, under the compression post.  As there was no evidence of movement didn't worry me, much.  The first winter lay-up, mast down, I closely looked at the area, dug out the crack and found it was only in the coating that Catalina puts all over the inside.  resin?  It was very thick.  I filled it in with thickened epoxy and the crack hasn't returned. 
Unless you hear of anyone having a real problem in that area.  Think you should look for any movement then treat it as a cosmetic repair.  Then keep checking.
Jim
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: scgunner on May 13, 2022, 06:47:16 AM
Jack,

If these cracks had appeared recently, even in the last few years, it might be a concern but after 19 years if nothing bad has happened it's probably not going to. Of course you'll always want to keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Noah on May 13, 2022, 08:28:12 AM
Why did you have it surveyed? If it was for insurance purposes, you may have an issue whether you think it is just cosmetic or not. You may need to get a second opinion from another surveyor.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: steveg on May 13, 2022, 11:29:30 AM
I agree with Jim Hardesty that the crack is cosmetic. I have a 2001 mkii #1572 just two boats away from your boat when they were built. I have never had a problem with it at all.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: jfssail on May 13, 2022, 02:52:23 PM
The survey was done for a buyer who has made an offer for this boat which is for sale.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: girmann on May 13, 2022, 03:58:08 PM
sounds like you need a second opinion.

Years back, I was taking slo-mo video of my 1991 C28 engine and noticed not only some cracking, but also how much they bent while the motor was running. (it was 25 years old at the time) Catalina's answer? "They do that, nothing to worry about"

I guess the only way to know is to get a second opinion

The survey was done for a buyer who has made an offer for this boat which is for sale.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Noah on May 13, 2022, 05:15:35 PM
I feel for you. You are in a tight spot. I doubt anything stated here will change the surveyor’s mind, but it may temper a buyer’s concerns. However, if the buyer agrees with the surveyor’s observations/conclusion, I see three options:
1. Convince buyer to get another surveyor/opinion—perhaps at your expense.
2. Negotiate a discount with buyer to cover the cost of any repair (either perceived or required).
3. Move on to a new buyer
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Kyle Ewing on May 14, 2022, 11:09:06 AM
Jack, would you mind posting a picture of the crack?
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: jfssail on May 14, 2022, 12:39:24 PM
Kyle, Thanks for the reply. I will be back at the boat Monday and post some photos at that time.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Jim Hardesty on May 15, 2022, 04:05:20 PM
From my experience, a Surveyors purpose is to find defects so their customer, the buyer, can negotiate a lower price or walk away from a bad deal.  I hope that doesn't sound too negative just what I believe to be part of the process.  One thing I'm sure they don't want to do is see something that may possibly be a problem and not report it. 
The better surveys that I have seen put a priority and estimated dollar cost on each repair and finish with an overall condition of the vessel with a broad market value.
Did you see the survey?  Was there a repair estimate and overall condition stated?
Hope it all works out well for you,
Jim
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: waughoo on May 15, 2022, 05:20:13 PM
The reality is that you could NOT negotiate on price.  When I bought my boat, there was plenty wrong, but the price reflected that.  Despite getting a survey, and lots being pointed out, I still bought it at the price set prior to survey.  A small crack in the gelcoat at that location is not something I would be concerned about if I was a buyer.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: jfssail on May 16, 2022, 05:15:00 AM
Jim, Alex, Thanks for your comments.  The survey was conducted on May 10, and I have not received any written report from the survey, just feedback by the Broker during the survey.  Jim, I still remember our lunch in Erie when you purchased my spinnaker.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: jfssail on May 31, 2022, 08:21:00 AM
I am attaching photos of the stringer cracks reported in a survey on my C36.He also reported moisture in the stringers.The cracks look cosmetic to me. Any comments would be appreciated,  Thanks
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Noah on May 31, 2022, 08:35:15 AM
If it were me, I would do some exploratory “surgery” along the crack and above and see if there is indeed moisture in there or wet or rotten wood. If there is, remove bad wood, treat for wood rot, and repair. If all is good, sand smooth, epoxy fill crack, sand again and paint engine bed and bilge with Interlux Bilgecoat.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: KWKloeber on May 31, 2022, 10:10:46 AM
What, exactly, are the surveyor's comments and "level of severity"? 

It's one thing to "note" everything that s/he "sights" on a boat and quite another to call out something as serious and structural and needing repair.  This looks cosmetic (the cracks) but a half-hour and an angle grinder will confirm that if the buyer is really concerned.  Thin gelcoat does crack at tabbing and fairing and stress points (an experienced buyer will recognize this is no big deal, and/or will try to make a big deal out of it to lower the price.)

As far as moisture there's a way to have a boat w/o ANY moisture in wood in/around the bilge or deck.  That's to buy a new boat not buy a 30-year-old one.  Most surveyors don't know how inaccurate using MMs can be anyway. 

Sure, the isolator lag bolt holes might possibly be a little rotted -- easily checked and isn't related to the gelcoat cracks.

...just this sailor's opinion
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Jon W on May 31, 2022, 02:54:19 PM
Hi Jack, When I have these types of technical questions I also ask Warren Pandy of Catalina Yachts for his opinion. He has been an Engineering/Technical Rep for Catalina for quite a while, and has been very helpful in the past. I haven't spoken to him in about a year, but think he is still there. It wouldn't hurt to send a few of your photos to Warren and ask him for his opinion. The e-mail I have for him is warren@catalinayachts.com. In my experience, he generally responds within 1-3 days.

Include the year, whether MK 1 or 2 if the C36 has that, and hull number in the e-mail so he knows which flavor Catalina 36 you have.
Title: Re: Crack along polyester resin coating engine support stringer
Post by: Ron Hill on May 31, 2022, 03:23:23 PM
Jack : The stringers that the engine mounts are screwed into are solid Oak.  The area of the "cracks" are not an area that is prone to being wet!!  I'd clean the crack area and see if a knife blade/hat pin can easily pernitrate the crack into the stringer.  If not, then run a bead of caulk along the crack!!

As far as the mounting lag screws I'd pull the "loose" lag bolts and wipe some epoxy on the hole walls (Do NOT fill the holes).  After the epoxy is set Hand tighten the mount bolts back in place.   I don't believe that you have a problem!  :D

A few thoughts