Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: andre on September 05, 2019, 01:57:33 PM

Title: Reefing system
Post by: andre on September 05, 2019, 01:57:33 PM
Hello I need a new main sail and the same time I want an amelioration on the reefing system because it's never easy to take a reef with my originally system. My boat is a mk11 1997. All the time I need to go to the mast because there is always something block. My English is not very good so if you have photos with your idea it would be appreciate. Thank you.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Mick Laver on September 07, 2019, 11:05:31 AM
Hi Andre,
When you say it is always "blocked" does that mean the sail won't come down, or does it mean that you can't pull your reefing line in any more?

Your slab reefing system is probably like mine was, where the line comes up from the cabin top on the port side of the boom, goes through the forward reef cringle (first reef)  and down to the starboard side of the boom, through the boom to the end, up the starboard side of the boom to the aft reef cringle, and then down the port side of the sail and tied off on the boom. Is that correct? There is a lot of friction in that system, and it can be made a lot smoother by putting small blocks (I used Harken 2149 Carbo T2 40mm) at the reef cringles and having the reefing line go up and down the same side of the sail.

If you're just having your sail made you may consider having small loops put in at the reef cringles. Your first reef would have the loops on the port side of the sail, the second reef would have the loops on the starboard side.

I can show you some pictures, but please let me know if this translates OK.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 07, 2019, 01:58:59 PM
That's a good idea.  Another is to go to double line reefing.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Jim Hardesty on September 08, 2019, 06:46:46 AM

Quote
That's a good idea.  Another is to go to double line reefing.

I agree.  Shamrock has in mast furling, I like it.  On my previous boat, a 30 footer, I tried both single and double reefing.  I liked the double line.  Less slack line when not reefing, liked pulling the tack first then the clew.  Just worked better for me.
I googled try this link.   Was a surprising number of hits and videos.   

https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2016/3/8/single-vs-doulbe

Jim


Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: andre on September 11, 2019, 03:25:04 PM
Thank you Mike. If you have some picture I would appreciate. I have the same system of you and never able to take a reef by the cockpit. And when there are big wave itís not funny to go to the mast. There is too many friction in the system
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: andre on September 11, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
Another think, on my new mainsail I want a third reef and I need idea to how install the third one. My idea is to install a hook for my first reef and keep the two reef line in place for the reef two and three. What do you think?
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: andre on September 11, 2019, 03:44:54 PM
Hi Stu your double line is a good idea but what are you doing with the reefing two and maybe three
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Noah on September 11, 2019, 04:14:36 PM
I believe double line reefing can be done to the cockpit for as many as three reef points, but it would take a lot of deck organizers (twin stack on each side?) and a lot of available clutches or cleats on the cabintop. You will still have some issues with friction too, I believe. Caveat: I have not tried this (yet). Currently, my double line reefing is still at the mast and on the boom.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Mick Laver on September 12, 2019, 10:04:47 AM
Andre
I think a hook for the first reef and lines led to the cockpit for the second and third is a very bad idea. I'm not sure of the weather conditions where you sail (perhaps you could add that to your signature?), but chances are you'll use the first reef 20 times for each time you use the second. (The third? My sail is coming down.) The goal is to make it easier and safer so you'll be more inclined to do it when the "maybe I should take a reef" thought comes into your head. The whole idea of slab or 2-line reefing is that you won't have to leave the cockpit because your reefing line(s) and main halyard winches are all in the same place.

I will try to take some pictures for you this weekend.

Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Jon W on September 12, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
FWIW -
My new main has three reef points. Each forward cringle has a "dogbone" installed for the reef lines to use. I have single line reefing led back to the cockpit for the first and second reef points. These two reef lines and the main halyard are in three cabin top clutches on the starboard side. I also changed the original double fairleads mounted under the traveler to triples on both port and starboard. First Photo. Second photo shows the triple through the dodger window.

My sailing is coastal sailing. I should be headed for a safe spot if the weather turns bad enough to consider a third reef, but you never know. In my mind (right or wrong) the third reef point will be rarely if ever used. It is really for emergency only. The plan for the third reef line set-up is for me (in harness tethered to jackline) to go to the mast and use a snap hook into the forward dogbone and secure the line to a cleat on the mast. The aft cringle will be drawn tight with a line wrapped around the boom like the first and second reef lines are, then pass through a cheek block (thru bolted to the boom) to a cleat at the forward end of the boom. Not the best time to go to the mast, but believe it will be rarely if ever used so don't want the lines run up and down the sails chafing them.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 12, 2019, 03:14:47 PM
Hi Stu your double line is a good idea but what are you doing with the reefing two and maybe three

See the November 2003 Tech Notes.  Entire article with pictures.  First and second reefs.  I've written before that I don't believe a third reef is necessary.  If you do, save some $$ and just put in a deeper second.  Your boat, your choice.  :D
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Jon W on September 12, 2019, 04:31:52 PM
Adding a third reef in the main is only a few dollars. The cost is in how you rig it. Iím looking at ~$100 for a lifetime of peace of mind.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: andre on September 14, 2019, 05:14:41 AM
Thank you for all your answers, my navigation plan is gulf of st-lawrence and nova scotia and newfoundland and sometimes between 20 and 30 hours time of navigation. Sometimes the forecast for this region changes rapidly and that's why I want a third reef on my new mainsail. Jon if you have picture of your installation and what is a dogbone?  Jon you have reason for the third reef it's only for the rare times when the weather comes very bad but when you are in the middle of the sea I think it's a good idea to have the third one, If you have more pictures I would appreciate. Excuse my fault i'm learning my English. thank you.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Noah on September 14, 2019, 08:57:30 AM
See pic of ďdog boneĒ attached. It is webbing through cringle with two rings attached on either side.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Jon W on September 14, 2019, 11:45:48 AM
Hi Andre, Noahís photo above is a ďdog boneĒ like I was talking about.

I havenít installed the third reef setup yet, just working through the plan right now. The first and second single line reef setup I can try to get late next week. Canít promise anything because Iím in the middle of installing a new autopilot.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: Mick Laver on September 14, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
Hi Andre,
Here's some detail of my second reef. The 2nd reef blocks are hung from "dogbones", both on the starboard side of the sail. The first reef blocks are also hung from dogbones, but on the port side of the sail. Since both the first and second reefing lines go through blocks (on deck, on the sail, and in the boom) friction is minimized. The sail comes down pretty easy. I'm using single line "slab" reefing, so each reef requires one line. For the first reef I used 60 ft (18.3M) of 5/16" (8 mm) of Sampson LST. For the second reef I used 90 ft (27.5M) of the same line.

Again, if you're just making the sail you might want to get the sailmaker to add loops in your sail at the reef cringles so you don't have to use dog bones. You can just hang the blocks on the loops, if you decide to go this way.
Title: Re: Reefing system
Post by: andre on September 15, 2019, 04:38:31 AM
Thank you very much everybody. Probably I will go with a single line reefing for the reef 1 and 2 and like jon for the reef 3. I will instal the little block for less friction If you have photos for the installation of the little block. thank you