Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Paulus on August 31, 2019, 02:06:13 PM

Title: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Paulus on August 31, 2019, 02:06:13 PM
My gps is 15 years old and in the mornings the screen is hard to read and the chips can not be updated.  I would like to replace this gps with a new Garmin.  Ideas and suggestions would be welcomed.  This is the first time in 15 years that I have searched the internet for a gps.  There seems to be a lot of bells and whistles.
Any ideas and suggestions would be welcomed.
Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: Stu Jackson on August 31, 2019, 03:16:30 PM
Paul, for starters:  handheld or fixed mount?  Need a depthsounder?  Many come with them.  Touchscreen or buttons or hybrid?

Without that kind of input from you, nobody can really help except to say: "This is what I have and I love it."  :D
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: Paulus on August 31, 2019, 03:37:32 PM
Hi Stu, good point.  I would love to have the same one but a new version.  I think that buttons/hybrid would be ok.  Have not really given this a lot of thought.  Will not need it until next summer..
Would like to hear from people who have a garmin and why they love that particular model.  I have a depthsounder and would this mean that I could get rid of the old depth sounder.
Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: britinusa on September 01, 2019, 05:25:54 AM
Our boat came to us with a Garmin 741xs GPSMap and a Garmin Echo Depth finder, plus several other instruments (wind, knots) that didn't work.

I ditched the old Standard Horizon instruments, kept the Echo depth. Added a NEMA 2000 Network (really easy) and added a Garmin (Airmar) NEMA 2000 Knots/Depth/Temp transducer as well as a Garmin Wireless Wind transducer (and it's 2 boxes) with Display

Now everything shows on the GPS, with the Echo depth backup.

The NEMA 2000 Network was the easiest thing ever to install! And new items (like our recent AIS Transceiver) were a snap to add to the system.

I'm a techy, but having the NEMA 2000 network was the best electronics addition, everything after it was a cinch.

Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: Bobg on September 03, 2019, 07:11:56 PM
I too am looking for a chart plotter, Garmin or equivalent, I don't need a depth sounder, just something to look at while sailing around familiar waters, would like to take it with me to use on other boats as well, keeping the costs under 500 dollars, any ideas", I have a small old Magellan with a very little screen so would like at least a 5 inch screen and easy to read in sunlight, I guess the internet is so full of chart plotters I get confused, need my fellow C34 member input, thanks
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: Jon W on September 03, 2019, 10:02:11 PM
Paul, Which AIS transceiver did you get?
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: britinusa on September 04, 2019, 04:40:59 AM
Jon, Em-Trak

https://www.sailingeximius.com/2019/05/ais-upgrade.html (https://www.sailingeximius.com/2019/05/ais-upgrade.html)

Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 05, 2019, 11:48:55 AM
I too am looking for a chart plotter, Garmin or equivalent, I don't need a depth sounder, just something to look at while sailing around familiar waters, would like to take it with me to use on other boats as well, keeping the costs under 500 dollars, any ideas", I have a small old Magellan with a very little screen so would like at least a 5 inch screen and easy to read in sunlight, I guess the internet is so full of chart plotters I get confused, need my fellow C34 member input, thanks

Bob, interestingly enough, this is one particular instance where "my fellow C34 members" may not apply to the choices available to you.  In Reply #1, I asked Paul, the OP, some specific questions, which in this case you've answered.  It appears that you are looking for a handheld, although you didn't say that your old Magellan was a hh, but taking it with you on other boats implies that.

In that case, you're actually lucky!  :D  That's because handhelds are becoming a dying breed.  That means that there are less of them to choose from.

I just did a Google search on "handheld marine GPS."  The second and third ones were for review of the 5 Best and 7 Best.  I'm sure it's interesting reading.

I was looking for a replacement hh for my trusty old Garmin GPSMap 76Cx, which I really like, but it's getting wonky after the April rollover.  It also doesn't have Canadian charts.  Easier for you in the US.  My limited investigations here indicate that buying a hh here and adding the Canadian charts would cost much more than a fixed based chartplotter!!!  That's because the fixed CPs already have the Canadian charts preinstalled and at deep discount.

A US friend recently upgraded his fixed mount and it came with a depthsounder, so he installed it separately from his existing one in a toilet bowl wax bedding or silicone.

My challenge with a fixed mount is that I do NOT want it on the binnacle.  It needs power.  I spend most of my time in front of the wheel except for leaving and returning to docks.  I don't want a TV screen in my view when I am behind the wheel.  And a RAM mount would add significantly to the cost.

The other challenge, while modest, is to learn new software if I buy a different brand.

I am convinced that touch screens are a disaster waiting to happen.  My friend's unit is hybrid: touchscreen and buttons.  Every time I went near the screen it would jump all over the place!  And it was clear and dry out, the boat wasn't moving.

Your boat, your choice.  :D

Happy hunting.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Paulus on September 05, 2019, 04:54:44 PM
I am looking at the Garmin Echomap 64cv.  This is not a touch screen unit.
Appreciate any input.
Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Noah on September 05, 2019, 05:18:26 PM
Stu and Paul- why not consider an iPad or other tablet solution? Portable/mobile and big screen.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 05, 2019, 05:29:19 PM
Noah, having been exposed to many, many internet discussions, the primary reasons are daylight readability and battery longevity.  Besides, I don't own a tablet, and don't even have a phone!!!  Where I go sailing there is NO signal service, so I can't justify spending $40 a month for something I can't use.  :D  I used to have a pay-as-you-go phone service in California, and it cost us $25 a quarter or a year, something ridiculously frugal.  Can't do that here.  I do understand the difference in tablets and phones re: wifi and GPS.

In any event, Canadian charts added to a tablet could, I say could, be expensive.  I just haven't pursued this at all, yet.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Noah on September 05, 2019, 06:00:59 PM
Stu- I am not an expert on this and have a dedicated (overly expensive) B&G multifunction display system both at the helm and chart table (and accessible by wifi on iPad) so hardly the frugal example  :cry4` however, I have heard of folks happily using a tablet with “cheap” or nearly free nav program and a $100 plug-in GPS dongle—successfully cruising the world. Worth checking out?
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 05, 2019, 09:30:26 PM
Worth considering, thanks.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Roc on September 11, 2019, 05:01:12 AM
I notice on many new boats at boat shows, that B&G instruments seem prevalent.  However I think two items gives Garmin the leg up.  First, they seem to be more intuitive in using.  But the biggest benefit recently is the fact that they bought Active Captain and all of the crowd sourcing data is now available on the Garmin units.  But I guess you would be able to access Active Captain on anything connected to the internet (via wifi or other means).  I don't have a chart plotter, so I can't comment beyond that.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: britinusa on September 11, 2019, 05:32:12 AM
My 1st Mate relies on the ChartPlotter.

Enough said  8)

(I would install a 2nd unit to display the current plat at a different zoom level if I were cruising extensively)

Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Jim Hardesty on September 11, 2019, 06:53:27 AM
My friend that cruises extensively uses Navionics apt on his phone.  This cost about $10 year?  His information is as good, possibly more updated, as my B&G but on a smaller screen.  No, doesn't need cell coverage to work.  I think that a dc plug handy to keep the phone charged and a bimini to be able to read the screen are a plus.  I have the free version loaded on my phone for backup.  I plan on upgrading for next years cruise. 
A disclaimer, we both carry the proper paper charts and would be fine with out the electronics.  I still like and use the paper for large scale overview navigating. 
Jim
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Paulus on September 12, 2019, 05:13:27 AM
I am staying with a chart plotter.  A tablet and phone requires them to be plugged in every evening.  Works if you spend a fair time at dock and also there a many areas in the North Channel and Lake Michigan that does not have wi-fi or cell phone coverage.  I know a lot of boaters that use their smart phones or tablets, just not for me.
Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Noah on September 12, 2019, 06:39:19 AM
What you mentioned as downsides of phone/tablet navigation may not be. Again, not a expert: but
1. a usb plug/charger socket connected to your house bank batteries to charge an iPad, phone or tablet should mitigate the need for shore power plug in and not require more power than a dedicated chartplotter.

2. I believe the gps in a phone, tablet, or an attached gps plugin dongle device should work without “cell or wifi” coverage?
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Jim Hardesty on September 12, 2019, 07:11:19 AM
Noah is correct.  I have no problem with GPS when out of cell service.  Don't know if you need to down load and store charts. Don't know how much it drains the house keeping the phone charged, don't think it's much.  I added a dc plug at the v-berth for cell charging while I'm sleeping.  My thought was to use it for anchor watch apt.  Tried a couple and didn't find one I liked, they also ate a lot of battery.  I'll try some again next season.  For now I use the free Navtronic apt set a way-point when the anchor drops and then I can see on the phone how far and what direction I'm from the anchor way-point.  It's something for a dark and stormy night. 
I was wrong with the $10 cost in my previous post.  It's $14.99 for US.  21.99 US and Canada.
Looked for a hand held GPS, not many.  I think the hand held GPS market has been taken over by cell phone apts.
Jim
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Jon W on September 12, 2019, 10:29:22 AM
My 2 cents - I have a chartplotter at the navigation station and use a tablet as a repeater in the cockpit. The tablet's battery does not last a full day without recharging. To solve I added a 12V outlet to the galley overhead right next to the companionway opening that I plug a long charging cable into a Schosche Dual USB charger. Works fine.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Paulus on September 12, 2019, 11:25:13 AM
I do not have a tablet or smart phone.  Still using a flip phone.  We spend most of our time at anchor and are careful about power consumption. We have a 12 volt outlet to charge the phone and run the 12volt vacuum.(when needed).   Jon, how do you get a signal on your tablet or phone if you are out of reach of a signal?  Is the tablet like a paper chart when you do not get a signal?
Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Jon W on September 12, 2019, 11:38:34 AM
The tablet connects to my Raymarine chart plotter via WiFi to act as a remote chart plotter anywhere I want to use it. You may not have a chart plotter, but addressing the tablet or phone battery life issue would still apply.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Paulus on September 12, 2019, 12:53:22 PM
Thanks Jon.  always interesting to learn something new.  I think that the new chartplotter(echomap 64cv with ultra vision) also has this capability.
Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: mark_53 on September 12, 2019, 01:16:32 PM
The tablet connects to my Raymarine chart plotter via WiFi to act as a remote chart plotter anywhere I want to use it. You may not have a chart plotter, but addressing the tablet or phone battery life issue would still apply.

I have a Raymarine chartplotter at the helm and use my iPhone as a remote display when below.  I cannot control the chartplotter from the remote display.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Noah on September 12, 2019, 02:48:12 PM
My B&G can pass control to my iPad or iPhone via wifi and they can control all functions EXCEPT the autopilot which is locked out by B&G software for “safety/liability” reasons. Guess they worry about someone sheering from their bunk. :shock:
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Rortega46 on September 12, 2019, 02:58:57 PM
Paulus, you may already know this but you don’t need a cellular connection to use an iPad as a chart plotter.  All you need for GPS navigation is to connect the iPad to something like a Garmin Glo.  It’s accurate, reliable and costs only $100 on Amazon.  The iSailor app is great for navigating and NOAA maps are free.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Jon W on September 12, 2019, 03:07:41 PM
Hi Mark, It’s been a while since I set it up, but think there’s a view only setting and a remote control setting. My phone is view only, but the tablet has remote control so I can change screens, zoom in and out just like sitting at the MFD at the navigation station. For reference I have the es98 MFD with touchscreen.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Noah on September 12, 2019, 03:10:36 PM
Another popular GPS plugin device for tablet, iPad, phone etc. used for navigation, is the  “Bad Elf”. Also $98 on Amazon.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: mark_53 on September 13, 2019, 09:39:19 AM
Hi Mark, It’s been a while since I set it up, but think there’s a view only setting and a remote control setting. My phone is view only, but the tablet has remote control so I can change screens, zoom in and out just like sitting at the MFD at the navigation station. For reference I have the es98 MFD with touchscreen.

Thanks for clarifying Jon.  I was using the RayView app.  There is a RayRemote app that transforms your iPhone into a "virtual remote keyboard". Should be compatible with my e7D MFD. 
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: britinusa on September 14, 2019, 12:45:05 PM
We often have our Tablet at the Helm, it's battery only lasts a couple of hours so I have a USB Charger battery to keep it going. When chance occurs, we plug either into one of the USB outlets installed at the Nav Station.

Paul
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Ted Pounds on September 17, 2019, 07:11:10 PM
Currently cruising the Rideau Canal and associated lakes on a houseboat. The navigation system is an iPad with no cell service and internal GPS. It uses Navionics chart app. It is left plugged in continuously to a USB charge port at the helm station.  It also has a waterproof case.  It is an outstanding navigation aid. Better than what I use flying the B-787. I can’t imagine a better system at any price. 
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: KWKloeber on September 17, 2019, 07:56:54 PM
Quote

use an iPad as a chart plotter.


Just an FYI.  You have to be careful about iPads and GPS.  (Unless Apple has changed its ways) only the cell-enabled iPads have an internal GPS chip.  The WiFi (only) iPads don't -- they use wifi networks and cell towers (even w/o an active cell contract) to determine the "gps" location, so it can at times be very approximate.  Even the iPads w/ gps chips initially use WiFi and cell to get the first (approximate) location (recall that your gps takes a while to lock onto enough satellites to start displaying a good location. So when first turned on, an iPad couldn't possibly lock onto GPS as quickly as it appears to find the location -- it's fooling us.)
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Stu Jackson on September 17, 2019, 08:13:02 PM
There have been, and will continue to be, detailed discussions about this topic.  Kinda like asking your mom what girl to marry before you've had a first date, or "What boat should I buy?"  :D

Here's another good recent one:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/new-iphones-and-the-imminent-death-of-the-mfd-223683.html
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: Noah on September 18, 2019, 02:19:45 PM
Ken— that is why I mentioned using a GPs plugin/dongle device for iPad such as a Garmin or Bad Elf add-on.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: mark_53 on September 19, 2019, 08:42:02 AM
Quote

use an iPad as a chart plotter.


Just an FYI.  You have to be careful about iPads and GPS.  (Unless Apple has changed its ways) only the cell-enabled iPads have an internal GPS chip.  The WiFi (only) iPads don't -- they use wifi networks and cell towers (even w/o an active cell contract) to determine the "gps" location, so it can at times be very approximate.  Even the iPads w/ gps chips initially use WiFi and cell to get the first (approximate) location (recall that your gps takes a while to lock onto enough satellites to start displaying a good location. So when first turned on, an iPad couldn't possibly lock onto GPS as quickly as it appears to find the location -- it's fooling us.)


The iPad Air uses (both wireless and cellular) GLONASS for out of coverage location data.  Here's the specs from Apple...


Wi-Fi + Cellular models

    Assisted GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, and QZSS
    Cellular
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: DaveBMusik on September 19, 2019, 06:51:08 PM
I use a Garmin 4210 at the helm. I purchased a year old Chart SD card for about $99 (Garmin will update it to the newest version one time). I installed a Vesper 8000 AIS which includes a WiFi signal. I use Aqua Map on my iPad which is one of the few programs that will accept the Vespers GPS location (no cellular version needed although mine is). Aqua Map also updates all the Active Captain info. I also have the Garmin 78 handheld as a third backup (which I have only used in the dinghy to get back to the boat in the fog :) ).
So, I have one year old charts on my 4210 at the helm with it's GPS Antenna reading AIS info from the Vesper, I have my iPad available using AquaMap and Navionics for problem areas (where updated info is crucial) as well as for AIS and Active Captain using the Vesper's GPS Antenna, the iPad's own cellular GPS antenna if the ship's electronics go out, my rarely used 78 and then (gasp) paper charts.
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: KWKloeber on September 19, 2019, 07:39:29 PM

Ken— that is why I mentioned using a GPs plugin/dongle device for iPad such as a Garmin or Bad Elf add-on.


[something else that I didn't realize - When you use an iPhone or iPad to geotag a photo, the accuracy is about 100 feet (about 30 meters), because Apple only stores GPS data down to the nearest second in latitude and longitude - geospatialexperts.com/ipad-gps/]

AhhhSo -- I didn't take it that you were referring to the WiFi (only) pads.  Just wanted to peeps who might be considering a WiFi only, realize that after all that, they'd need tpo plunk down another bill after the fact to get gps.

The last time I looked into this, I recall there were issues with the iPad (or maybe it was specific apps) being able to use or accept any old tethered external gps - hopefully, that is much better now.

-k
Title: Re: GPSmap 172c --- GPS Replacement Options
Post by: DaveBMusik on September 20, 2019, 08:42:52 AM
Quote

use an iPad as a chart plotter.


Just an FYI.  You have to be careful about iPads and GPS.  (Unless Apple has changed its ways) only the cell-enabled iPads have an internal GPS chip.  The WiFi (only) iPads don't -- they use wifi networks and cell towers (even w/o an active cell contract) to determine the "gps" location, so it can at times be very approximate.  Even the iPads w/ gps chips initially use WiFi and cell to get the first (approximate) location (recall that your gps takes a while to lock onto enough satellites to start displaying a good location. So when first turned on, an iPad couldn't possibly lock onto GPS as quickly as it appears to find the location -- it's fooling us.)


The iPad Air uses (both wireless and cellular) GLONASS for out of coverage location data.  Here's the specs from Apple...


Wi-Fi + Cellular models

    Assisted GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, and QZSS
    Cellular

From Apple:

Location
Wi-Fi
Digital compass
Wi‑Fi
iBeacon microlocation

Wi‑Fi + Cellular
Digital compass
Wi‑Fi
Assisted GPS and GLONASS
Cellular
iBeacon microlocation

I take this to be as it always has been, you need to have the cellular version on order to have wifi OR external dongle OR wireless signal from an external GPS such as the Vesper 8000 AIS