Doing some extensive plumbing work.
I recently removed my hot water heater & disassembled the unit. The tank appears to be in good shape but the external cover shows signs of rust. I have cleaned off all cover pieces and was thinking of repainting & reassembly. I did not have a chance to fully test it because the boat is on the hard but I plan to test it before I continue. My initial testing was to look for leaks & any signs of sediment in the tank, all appears to look good. The date code on the unit says it is a 1985. Any suggestions on if I should put it back together or replace it?
I also removed my fresh water pump which is also original.. I tested the pump and it seems to function except the water output seems to pulse. I am pondering the same for the pump because I did some reading & it seems the newer pumps are quieter. I plan to mount it low on the bulkhead which connects to the aft salon behind the sink. I am also considerimg
I have removed the sink to provide easier access to all components. i would appreciate any useful advice from the vast knowledge base on this forum.
Ed,
depends... do you have excess boat bucks to burn to reduce the possibility of needing to pull the WH sooner if there's a leak? If so replace. But if you are on a budget, simply pressure test it and especially clean and look for corrosion/pitting at the connection weld spots (that's where mine developed a pinhole.) I replaced mine (the cost of touching up the welds equaled my cost for a new Seaward.)
10 yrs previous, I had repainted the case -- sand the rust spots to bare, use a galvanized metal primer if you're going over old galvanizing -- it will take a while to cure, Then paint over with your finish coat (I used aluminum paint.) I also added additional f'glass insulation.
Thanks for the response, I am always trying to reuse what is not broken but will pay very close attention to the welds to see if there is enough corrosion to warrant replacement.
Any suggestions on the Fresh water pump? I was also considering an expansion tank but reading some material on newer pumps says they can be used without one because they have multiple chambers. If there is a pump that someone has used a specific model number would be appreciated.
Ed,
You may have read my water heater replacement tech note: http://www.c34.org/mainsheet/html/2014/Water%20heater%20replacement.htm (http://www.c34.org/mainsheet/html/2014/Water%20heater%20replacement.htm)
Our experiences have been 12-16 years on the Seaward heaters. I got the best pricing from Sure Marine in Seattle.
Water Pumps: My OEM Shurflo was 2.8 GPM -- Model # 2088-423-344
I bought a replacement Shurflo 3901-0216 3.0 GPM, 55psi. I haven't installed it yet, 'cuz as soon as I bought it the old one continued to work! Probably jealous! :D
I went through the research on the new fangled ones, but reading the woes of the C355 skippers with their Jabsco new pressure pumps, I opted for the KISS principle. I/we don't mind the small amount of noise, and I actually like it as a "tell tale" for any leaks. Since I redid the system in 2014, knock on wood.
I also went through the research on an accumulator tank, and even though I found the room for one, I simply never bothered.
If it was my boat, I'd get a new heater "while you're in there," and never have to worry about it for the next decade or more.
Your boat, your choice. :D
Stu,
Thanks much for the information.
I always appreciate your tag line of my boat, my choice.
Quote from: Ekutney on May 25, 2016, 02:55:00 PM
I always appreciate your tag line of my boat, my choice.
You're welcome.
I don't know "where that came from," but I shoulda copyrighted it! :D
Any suggestions for a new water heater? I have looked at both a Seaward & Kuuma, the Isotherm is quite a bit more expensive.
I read the Tech Note but it is a bit different than my current configuration, all my hose connections are on the side facing the water heater door. Are the connections in the picture (facing water heater door) the cold water input & hot water output? I assume the hot water in/out from the engine coolant are on the other side.
I am going to take your suggestion and replace the water heater since I have all other components removed.
Ed, Kuuma is a knock off of the Seaward. Go with Seaward, unless you can afford the more expensive Isotherm which will keep you water hot much much longer because of its superior insulation, plus it comes with a thermostatic mixing valve.
You buy the Seawards with either back or front connections. Mine were rear, and "get" the important point about installing short 5/8" hoses to the heater before you install it, makes connecting to the engine hoses so much easier.
Those connections (and the choices on the Seaward) are for the engine connections. The plumbing connections are in the front of the heater, no choice there.
Clear?
Stu,
Thanks for the info, crystal!!
I got the Kuuma because of the enormous price difference. The Kuuma was 250$ It is a tiny bit different as far as height of the engine coolant inlet and outlet but nothing unworkable. You can get the heater element replacement for this at McMaster Carr for 10$
Quote from: Indian Falls on May 30, 2016, 06:38:17 AM
I got the Kuuma because of the enormous price difference. The Kuuma was 250$
I got my replacement Seaward for $281 including s/h in August 2103. I shopped around on the internet. There is a HUGE disparity in pricing across the board.
Another question regarding the water heater. I removed the old Seaward unit and it was poorly attached to a circular piece of plywood which was put in place using 5200. The unit had a bigger footprint than the round base to which it was attached so the PO used a very large hose clamp to try and hold down one end while the other was attached using the flange. I have cleaned up the area, boy 5200 really is a permanent bonding material. Used a heat gun to overture and remove being careful not to get too aggressive when getting closer to the hull. It seems as I dig deeper I find more facinating discoveries.
I was thinking of glassing in two 1X1 18 in long oriented port to strb then attaching a plywood shelf to bolt the new water heater. I have measured and have the height. This config will keep the water heater off the hul and I can extend the shelf stbd for either water pump mounting or storage. I am also considering mounting the electric water pump on the bulkhead shared with the setee. I have remounted the bottom door in the galley so it opens to stbd rather than dropping down (the PO put a big NO STEP sign on it which just seemed like an accident waiting to happen), I think this would be a good space for additional galley storage.
What was underneath mine:
I had the same exact configuration but the wood was not was coming apart and could not be reused. The shelf to the right in your picture had come away from the hull at both ends so I removed it as well.
I will take some pictures in the next few days and post them showing, I hope, my NEW platform for the water heater. BTW, I went with a Kuuma because I got it at a good price $240. I found the date code on the Seaward and it was a 2007 and tested good with no leaks but had quite a bit of scaling on the inside. I also got some very brown water out of it when it was removed, did not feel comfortable with the odor that it had even after I flushed it a few times. The old water heater did not have an anode installed, I have read that having one installed will increase the lifetime of a unit by decreasing internal corrosion. I ordered a magnesium anode with a built in drain, any experience or thoughts regarding that?
My PO relocated the water heater to an area aft of the aft cabin. It is next to the hanging locker there. I can access it through an opening there. It freed up a lot of space under the sink. It has worked out well.
Quote from: Ekutney on May 31, 2016, 10:09:29 PM
1...I also got some very brown water out of it when it was removed, did not feel comfortable with the odor that it had even after I flushed it a few times.
2...The old water heater did not have an anode installed, I have read that having one installed will increase the lifetime of a unit by decreasing internal corrosion. I ordered a magnesium anode with a built in drain, any experience or thoughts regarding that?
1. One of the reasons we have been recommending that all skippers use the hot water faucets REGULARLY, even if there is no hot water, is to keep the water moving through the heater. Get into that habit and you will avoid having the same water sitting in the heater for extended periods of time. I'm right handed, so when I use the galley faucet I hold whatever I'm filling with my right hand and use my left hand to turn the hot water faucet. Just a good habit to get into.
2. The anode is ONLY required where there is a "bad" fresh water SOURCE. It is NOT for avoiding corrosion from salty seawater. The Seaward manual, available on the web, indicate that the anodes are magnesium and are designed to deal with bad drinking water. They don't describe what that means. FWIW, I have never had one on ours (two Seawards in 18 years).
I second Stu's recommendation to run the hot water regularly. When I wasn't the water that sat for a while had a sulfur/rotten egg odor.
Quote from: Jon W on June 01, 2016, 11:33:34 AM
I second Stu's recommendation to run the hot water regularly. When I wasn't the water that sat for a while had a sulfur/rotten egg odor.
Fresh Water System Recommissioning 101 - Peggie Hall's "Cocktail" http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5836.0.html
from the "101 Topics"
The anode is there to prevent galvanic corrosion, just like the one in your home hot water heater or the zincs on a boat in fresh water. It is not for dealing with bad water.
There is an issue, though, of an occasional interaction between a harmless aerobic bacteria, and tank anodes that can produce a foul rotten egg odor. If you get it the solution is to either kill the bacteria with a shot of hydrogen peroxide or bleach in the tank or to switch to an aluminum/zinc alloy anode. I do not recommend running a hot water heater without any anode. Below is a link on the topic from a great site on extending the life of domestic hot water heaters by changing out the anode every 5 years or so. Most of what they say applies to marine hot water heaters as well.
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Troubleshooting/stinky-water-in-hot-water-heaters.html (http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Troubleshooting/stinky-water-in-hot-water-heaters.html)
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Longevity/water-heater-anodes.html (http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Longevity/water-heater-anodes.html)
I bought a magnesium anode which also has a petcock on it to allow the WH to be drained. I have looked online and have found an aluminum/zinc anode but none that have a drain capability. I'd rather not have to worry about the potetial of a rotten egg smell. Is there any difference in the functionality of an anode using this type of material?
I am planning to mount my new water heater to a plywood platform that I am going to attach to two 1X1 rails that are going to be attached to the hull using West Marine thickened epoxy. I have dry fitted the rails which are raised on the inboard side using another section of 1X1, this makes the top of the rail level. I am a novice at this and would appreciate comments or suggestions because I am not sure if glassing the two ends to the hull will provide enough strength. Configuration of the rails are shown in the attached pics.
Another pic of the rails showing how one end is raised, do you think I should also put a block in the center or just use thickened epoxy and a strip of fiberglass mat?
Correction West System epoxy thickened with silica.
Ed,
There's many ways to skin a cat but IIWMB I would have taken a 2x2 and rip it on an angle so the cleats sit level. As far holding power, more is better than less -- IIWMWH I wouldn't rely on just 4 points. I would also tab in the length of the cleats with fiberglass.
Make sure to epoxy any and all wood, even if it's treated. I used a pc of poly 1/4" thick cutting board from wallyworld to mount under my WH -- I wanted something permanent that water wouldn't attack.
FWIW, I like Mas Epoxy over West - simpler/more forgiving 2 to 1 mix and no amine blush to deal with. Mas has both a slightly heavier than West resin, and a penetrating resin. I use West microfibers for "attaching" most everything -- it's mixes much easier than the fluffy, blow-away colloidal silica -- which is like trying to mix cotton into peanut butter. And the microfibers has superior adhesive properties.
kk
Did you place the 1/4 " board directly on the hull? Doesn't the WH sit on an angle? What did you use to attach the board to the hull?
Good idea of ripping a 2X4 that would give me more contact area the length of the rail. I plan to use thicken epoxy to attach the rails to the hull, thoughts?
I started another post with idea of changing the location of the Water Heater. Another owner told me his Water Heater is located under the aft berth, I like the idea but wanted to get feedback from others, please look at this NEW topic and give your opinions.
Hi Ed,
This spring I moved my fresh water pump to the hull below the shelf it orginally resided upon. I made up a small shelf and epoxied it (West and colloidal silica) to the hull. The reduction in sound during operation surprised me. It's a big improvement. Here's a photo:
(https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOYwlYDqvj2C59xtDX3DLPyrQu-pLS2CX3j3057) (https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOYwlYDqvj2C59xtDX3DLPyrQu-pLS2CX3j3057)
Dan
Ennui Went #159
Sorry, the photo is attached (I hope).
Dan
I see the screws at each corner of the shelf, is it mounted directly to the hull? Did you bother to make it level? I assume the noise is reduced because it is mounted on a very thick solid surface so any vibration is dissipated across the entire hull.
I raised the shelf off the hull about 1/2 inch on narrow boards under the left and right ends of the shelf. This provided clearance for the bolts connecting the pump to the shelf. The spacer boards are epoxied to the hull. The shelf is screwed to the spacer boards. To make sure everything lined up, I screwed the shelf to the spacers, buttered up the spacer boards and then pressed the assembly to the hull.
And, I didn't bother to level it. The pump just fits under the original shelf. I moved my AC pump there, looking for a better location to keep its prime.
Quote from: Ekutney on June 03, 2016, 10:15:45 PM
Did you place the 1/4 " board directly on the hull? Doesn't the WH sit on an angle? What did you use to attach the board to the hull?
Good idea of ripping a 2X4 that would give me more contact area the length of the rail. I plan to use thicken epoxy to attach the rails to the hull, thoughts?
Ed,
I don't think 2x4 is necessary, just 2x2 ripped down on the angle so it sits flat. 1-1/2 wide is enough for a screw bite.
WH location and poly board was a different boat model, different location, but concept was the same.
OEM WH was located on a wooden board that rotted a little, so I yanked that out. I set wooden (treated) cleats in place, bolted the WH to the Poly cutting board (trimmed to size,) and screwed the whole shebang to the cleats. I had to do that because the angle clip on one side of the WH (to fasten it down) was inaccessible with the WH in place (the WH was jammed against a wall with about 1" space so couldn't get to any fasteners to screw it down.) So I bolted the WH clips to the poly board, then screwed the board/WH down, locating countersunk flat head screws where they were accessible so I could install/remove the unit. I use cheap poly cutting boards occasionally -- a lot cheaper than Starboard (but not UV stabilized so i keep them in cupboards, lockers, etc.) It's stable (doesn't warp like 1/2" treated plywood can.) But unfortunately not epoxyable, so they need to be screwed or bolted in place. They make good battery shelves (acid won't hurt them.)
Ken
I started another post exploring the posubility of relocating the WH. Thought another member was talking about under the aft berth but it turns out the PO located behind the aft bulkhead. Check it out and add your two cents.