Coming off a short cruise, I noticed my bilge pump was coming on regularly. Upon inspection of the thru hulls...nothing. Then I went to the prop shaft and found what's in the photo. Water was running in from the hull, leaking out the shaft rubber boot. Also there was some sort of fibrous material in the boot. I pushed the fibrous pieces back in the boot and cranked down on the clamps and it stemmed the flow, but this isn't how it looked before I left (I had just replaced the clamps on the boot). I haven't been able to find photos inside a Catalina 34 hull without the shaft installed. Obviously before this happened there was something under the aft section of this boot of greater diameter than it is now.
It looks to me that the hose has slipped forward a fair amount. Though I can't tell from this far away, it appears that the forward most hose clamp on the stern tube has come off the tube and is reducing the diameter of the hose. My first recommendation would be to loosen those clamps on the stern tube and see if you can shift the hose aft, further onto the tube.
I've tried to shift it and clamp, but there doesn't seem to be much to clamp to. Any idea what these fibers came from? They were inside the boot.
Here is a photo I found on the net but it doesn't explain why the aft part of the boot collapses so with that bronze tube beneath it, or where those shredded fibers are coming from.
This is what it looked like before I replaced the clamps.
Dave,
Where does fibrous material come from? Answer, fiberglass. It also looks like a fairly impressive crack in the fiberglass behind the shaft log. I'd say there's a date with your shipyard in the near future.
I replaced that propeller shaft hose last year. On the mkii at least, the prop shaft tube fiberglassed into the hull appears to be only fiberglass, albeit pretty strong fiberglass. Mine sticks out from the hull maybe 3 inches, enough to get 2 normal hose clamps on and not much more.
I agree with Alex in comparing your two pictures, it looks like the hose has moved forward a bit. I'd take both the hose clamps off on the hull side and see if I couldn't push the whole thing aft.
And I can not say what the fiberous goop is. It almost looks like seaweed, but my guess is that if that's the original hose from 1986, with all the motion of the engine and prop shaft, it's probably due to be replaced and you're seeing some of the hose internals mixed with water. But that's a guess.
Unfortunately that hose is not easy to replace. When is your next haul out?
With the crack in the fiberglass I'm guessing ASAP on the haul out. Something appears to have disintegrated inside the hose because the diameter beneath the hose is reduced. I'm going to try and move it up and get it to stay, but now there's not much to clamp to.
It is possible the stern tube is crushed or damaged. What caused this, I don't know. But perhaps age and gross engine misalignment combined and over-tightening clamps? Or maybe just bad hose is the issue. Don't know and can't tell from pictures. But I would haul-out ASAP before motoring any distance.
Noah the mechanic came by and you were spot on. The tube was crushed. No way to know without haulout. I'm having the motor mounts changed, stern bearings, new shaft log tube. After mounts changed they'll have to inspect and align the shaft. Stuffing box repacked and inspection/repair of that fiberglass cracks.
Dave : Noah is correct. It looks like your are going to have to do some fiberglass/PVC tube work when you get on the hard!! There have been a number of post recently (with in the past year) on replacing that hose on the packing gland!!
a few thoughts
I'll get an estimate tomorrow, but the fiberglass work on the tube rebuild is going to be the most expensive. My friend who is head mechanic for that yard said he was concerned it could run up to or above $10K for everything on the list. This $32K boat is about to go way past resale value.
One question: On the Catalina 34 does the rudder have to be removed to slide the shaft out?
I'll answer last question. The shaft will slide out past the rudder (barely) but first you must remove the cutlass bearing.
Shaft log part is available for $92.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-30/engine/props-etc/shaft-log-fiberglass/?SearchResults=1
Labor to remove and install/glass-in?
The motor mounts and alignment you can do yourself?
Parts for the rest (hose, cutlass bearing, motor mounts, etc.) under $1,000.
Thanks for the link. I notice that Catalina Direct doesn't show a motor mount specifically for the M25 in a C34. Are they the same?
Buy your Vetus motor mounts from Defender. They are about $90 ea.
I found Ron's article on changing motor mounts where he used the Vetus K50, and explained they would also work on the M25 engines.
Porch : The Vetus K75 engine mounts will work on both the M25 and M25XP engines. The K50 mount are a bit soft so I went to the K75s aft and the K50 in the front.
A few thoughts
Thanks, Ron.
Hauling out on Sept 11 to have the work done. No estimate yet because they have to take the shaft out to determine what happened to shred my shaft log. Could be cutlass bearing or motor alignment, maybe I hit something when I was out. I'll post the outcome, along with details on a gofundme page :cry4`...the grandkids are hiding their pets so that source of income is out the window!
Dave : The drive shaft WILL slide just past the rudder with the cutlass bearing still in place, BUT the shaft MUST be CLEAN and a little grease lube helps.
It is alot easier if you remove the cutlass bearing and then install a new one after the shaft is back in place!!
A few thoughts
No one at the boat yard can figure out what caused the shaft log to disintegrate. Shaft doesn't appear bent, but they are sending it off to check. After haul out no evidence of impact. Progressive's adjuster is dragging his feet on coverage beings there is no obvious cause. The cutlass bearing is good. Huge mystery that may cost me 100% of a $7K plus repair bill.
I don't know how to deal with Progressive on a claim like this. Any ideas?
Quote from: Porchhound on September 29, 2023, 02:56:14 PM
I don't know how to deal with Progressive on a claim like this. Any ideas?
Dave I have had occasion to contest residential insurance companies' denial or coverage whose idiot inspectors and adjusters didn't know what the hell condition they were looking at, no less attempt to make an accurate evaluation of the cause. One way is to have an inspection. possibly a written report (if your attorney requests one) by a professional two levels above their heads to have some teeth for the attorney to put the insurance company on notice.
The insurance company ended up covering the fee to perform that service for the insured party it first denied coverage. I would be looking for a qualified licensed marine professional engineer to back you up as to the cause.
Dave : You just learned why a number of us have our insurance with Boat U.S.
A thought
I would suggest someone other than Geico for this type of boat. Perhaps a jet ski or a smaller trailer boat they would be sufficient, but I can't say they are any good at a cruising boat.
Alex: Interesting? Why, have you had a bad experience with BoatUS/Geico? I have had them for eight years now and have had no issues, although I have never made a claim. So my "endorsement" is unsubstantiated. My coverage is for an agreed value of $40K (what it would fetch, not what I have in it):cry4` and geographic cruising area limited to coastal and offshore waters of US and Canada. I haven't inquired (yet) about a Mexico rider. Policy includes all "standard" pollution coverage and $500k liability, with my yacht club/marina also listed as a named insured. My premium did go up 15% this year, but still is only $640 per year. I do have a higher personal liability umbrella, through my homeowers insurer (a different company).
I have USAA for my homeowners and vehicles. When I bought the boat, I asked them who their preferred partner was and they said Geico. When signing up for insurance, the call center employee had no idea about a boat. I was challenged on my stated value as they said it was only insurable for what I bought it for. I tried to explain where I bought it, sailing was not really a thing which depressed its value. When I shipped it to Seattle where there is a large market, it's value is MUCH higher. After 2 or 3 tries, I gave up and contacted a marine insurance broker here in Seattle who completely understood and I've been there since. My Father has his 21' ski boat insured through Geico and he has been happy. I just found it wasn't reasonable for my boat and my needs.
Quote from: Noah on September 30, 2023, 05:27:24 PM
Alex: Interesting? Why, have you had a bad experience with BoatUS/Geico? I have had them for eight years now and have had no issues, although I have never made a claim. So my "endorsement" is unsubstantiated. My coverage is for an agreed value of $40K (what it would fetch, not what I have in it):cry4` and geographic cruising area limited to coastal and offshore waters of US and Canada. I haven't inquired (yet) about a Mexico rider. Policy includes all "standard" pollution coverage and $500k liability, with my yacht club/marina also listed as a named insured. My premium did go up 15% this year, but still is only $640 per year. I do have a higher personal liability umbrella, through my homeowers insurer (a different company).
Noah, like you I have had BoatUS/Geico insurance for 30 years, never a claim, however I just received my renewal and they dropped my Agreed Value to $20,400, so be prepared for a shock when you get your renewal as our boats are the same age. I will contact them next week and see whether they agree to raise the agreed insured value back up. If not I will cancel Geico and go with Progressive that provided me a quote for a $35,000 agreed value. J.D. Power Blue Book value is $37,050 Low retail, $41950 high retail, so I have no idea how Geico came up with a $20,400 agreed value number.
I took my Geico paper work to my local car/home owner company so they knew what values to quote. I wanted to start with the same coverage as Geico/ BOAT us. (We started with Boat US in 1978 and have stayed with them for all their company changes...until now.) Changed to our home owner company and saved money with better coverage.
Just my experience.
Phil