Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: ErikN on December 17, 2022, 07:36:31 AM

Title: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: ErikN on December 17, 2022, 07:36:31 AM
One of my winter projects is to rewire the instrument panel, and I thought some folks might enjoy this "before" photo of the rat's nest.

I also have one question: are there any conventions regarding wire colors for, e.g., the wires that connect the gauge positives, negatives, etc.? I'm aware of the ABYC conventions for the harness wire colors, but I'm curious about the short wires that run between posts on the back of the panel.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Noah on December 17, 2022, 09:49:09 AM
Why not use the same colors as the factory?

https://www.catalinadirect.com/images/features/Z4644%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?CFID=15307861&CFTOKEN=350a36bcc8b2d9ee-4BFA05BB-CEA4-88D4-6D5C5AD0F319FDDC
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: glennd3 on December 17, 2022, 11:44:53 AM
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,10792.msg84494.html#msg84494

You may want to see this thread.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 17, 2022, 12:55:05 PM
Erik : While you're in there - change out the instrument light from the old #194 bulbs to LEDs.  They are way tooo hot!!   I wrote an Mainsheet Tech Note article on that subject (Superbrightleds.Com). 

I went to red LEDs for night vision!!

A thought
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: ErikN on December 17, 2022, 01:52:52 PM
I spent a long time researching this project, but I somehow missed that thread. The red led's are a great idea--thanks!

As for the wire colors, the factory diagram shows the colors for the wires coming up to the panel, but not the various connections, e.g., from the ignition switch to the glow plug and start buttons, all the instrument ground connections, etc. I could make all the positives red and all the grounds black, but I thought some different colors might make it easier (for me) to follow different paths. It should be a lot simpler after I rewire it, so this really isn't a big deal.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: waughoo on December 18, 2022, 10:06:14 AM
Noah's suggestion to use the wiring kit from CD.  That gets you the color code for the main harness.  I wouldn't frett about the colors for the start button wires etc. 

I want to rebuild my whole panel with new gauges.  Mine are pretty well sun busted.  Does anyone have a source for the gauges sold in the kit sold by CD?  They are lit in a way that makes them SO MUCH easier to see at night.  I have snooped around but have yet to find the ones used by the factory.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: glennd3 on December 18, 2022, 12:31:32 PM
I do not believe the manufacturer is still in business. I got replacements from Defender, see my thread from above.

Quote from: waughoo on December 18, 2022, 10:06:14 AM
Noah's suggestion to use the wiring kit from CD.  That gets you the color code for the main harness.  I wouldn't frett about the colors for the start button wires etc. 

I want to rebuild my whole panel with new gauges.  Mine are pretty well sun busted.  Does anyone have a source for the gauges sold in the kit sold by CD?  They are lit in a way that makes them SO MUCH easier to see at night.  I have snooped around but have yet to find the ones used by the factory.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Catalina007 on December 25, 2022, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: glennd3 on December 18, 2022, 12:31:32 PM
I do not believe the manufacturer is still in business. I got replacements from Defender, see my thread from above.

Quote from: waughoo on December 18, 2022, 10:06:14 AM
Noah's suggestion to use the wiring kit from CD.  That gets you the color code for the main harness.  I wouldn't frett about the colors for the start button wires etc. 

I want to rebuild my whole panel with new gauges.  Mine are pretty well sun busted.  Does anyone have a source for the gauges sold in the kit sold by CD?  They are lit in a way that makes them SO MUCH easier to see at night.  I have snooped around but have yet to find the ones used by the factory.

I only buy proprietary Catalina items from CD. The prices on everything else are a ripoff. I replaced with Sierra gauges, You can get them anywhere and can buy individually also.  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rra-69709p?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAhqCdBhB0EiwAH8M_Gou5p4d4BDOS587LQYgGUYXN0kTLkRSTaLVkO3m2WOJv0BjzPde-_hoC9CoQAvD_BwE


Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: waughoo on December 25, 2022, 10:47:58 AM
The problem with the Sierra gauges are that they are lit in the same way as the old ones in the cluster.  The ones CD sells in their clusters are lit from behind as is the wand.  Plus they look way better (to me). 
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 25, 2022, 01:45:56 PM
Erik : I still have the original instruments.  After I replaced the 194 bulbs with red LEDs I took an after noon and soldered all of the wires into the U/ring connectors. Then I sprayed the back with "BoShield". Have never had a problem since and never had a reason to take that panel off any more!!

A thought




Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: ErikN on December 26, 2022, 09:01:09 AM
Why solder, rather than crimp & heat shrink? I'm planning to replace the wire harness next (the old RV plugs are headed to the dumpster) and I would like to do all this properly.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 26, 2022, 01:45:49 PM
Erik : Those old RV plugs (Gummy Bears) were changed out  long ago - 1991!! 

The Boshield spray does almost the same thing as heat shrink - it protects the connections with a waxy coating.  You need to try it!!

A thought
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: ErikN on December 26, 2022, 04:12:16 PM
Had I owned the boat in 1991, those plugs would be long gone! At least some previous owner removed the ammeter.

But I'm curious, when is it better to solder connections rather than crimp them? Is there a rule of thumb, or is it preference?
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Jim Hardesty on December 27, 2022, 05:31:27 AM
QuoteBut I'm curious, when is it better to solder connections rather than crimp them? Is there a rule of thumb, or is it preference?

I remember reading somewhere years ago that ABYC calls for crimped connections.  If my memory is correct it had to do with the wicking solder making the wire prone to breaking due to vibration.  So I changed my ways and now use crimp connections.  Do need good tools and proper connectors.  After making a crimp connection I give it a visual look and a good pull, never had a connection I made fail.
Having said that, don't think that soldering is a bad thing.  There may be some place it's better.
Jim
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Noah on December 27, 2022, 12:01:43 PM
The ABYC E-11 standard is quite clear that "solder shall not be the sole means of electrical connection". Crimp and then solder yes. Straight solder. NO.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 27, 2022, 01:38:16 PM
Noah : Thanks - Guys there are numerous electrical connections on your C34 that are not prone to ANY vibration!!  A crimped and soldered connection gives the BEST electrical connection in a salt air environment.
This is especially true with the battery lug connections - I've never had a problem starting and I still have the factory size (mostly the original) #4 wire, but the lugs are crimped and soldered!!

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: waughoo on December 27, 2022, 04:53:01 PM
Noah,

I know that's the standard for wiring but man... I solder (only) tons of stuff.  Especially when it is very small diameter wire.  Larger wire where I am using lugs makes a lot of sense to crimp.  I have just not had much luck with anything below about 16ga wire staying put in a crimp connector even when using the appropriate ratchet jaw crimper.  The crimp connectors with adhesive shrink wrap give me the most confidence as they at least provide some strain relief via the shrink wrap.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 28, 2022, 02:05:58 PM
Alex : I agree.  I crimp and solder everything (belt & suspenders) even the #4 wire ring connectors on the alternator.  I have had a broken ring connector, but that was after 4000 hours of the engine running!!! 

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: glennd3 on December 29, 2022, 09:18:23 AM
You may want to check these. I have not used them but the guys in my British car club like them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wh5gM8GM70
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Noah on December 29, 2022, 09:46:16 AM
Be very cautious. Somewhere I read a review of this type connector and they had a super high failure rate and could NOT survive the "pull test." They also found it tricky to get the solder to flow properly without burning the insulation. I will see if I can locate the test/review.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: glennd3 on December 29, 2022, 10:08:31 AM
I could see that happening.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: mark_53 on December 29, 2022, 12:13:13 PM
So how do you solder a butt connector that's been crimped?
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 29, 2022, 02:15:18 PM
Mark : You can't solder a butt connector that has already been crimped!!  The best thing is to cut out the but connector and solder the wires and cover the joint with heat shrink!!

What I do to join 2 wires together is slice a piece of heat shrink and slide it over one of the wires.  Then twist the wire ends together and solder them. Slide down the heat shrink (when cool) over the soldered connection, and then hit the heat shrink with a heat gun.

If the wires are marine grade wire it's very easy to solder.  If regular copper wire - sand the strands with fine sand paper first - till shinny then solder.

A few thoughts

Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Noah on December 29, 2022, 02:55:44 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on December 28, 2022, 02:05:58 PM
Alex : I agree.  I crimp and solder everything (belt & suspenders) even the #4 wire ring connectors on the alternator.  I have had a broken ring connector, but that was after 4000 hours of the engine running!!! 

A few thoughts
Ron— I believe this statement was confusing... you said solder AND crimp...?
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Jon W on December 29, 2022, 05:03:28 PM
Some tinned copper lugs have a small hole to solder after crimping the lug to a wire/cable. Maybe that's what Ron was referring to.
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Catalina007 on December 30, 2022, 08:25:59 AM
Quote from: glennd3 on December 29, 2022, 09:18:23 AM
You may want to check these. I have not used them but the guys in my British car club like them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wh5gM8GM70

Hate to sound negative, but the last place I would take suggestions from on automotive electrics is from an
organization involving British cars. :(
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: glennd3 on December 30, 2022, 12:22:59 PM
  At least they did not use trailer connections. :D


:D
Quote from: Catalina007 on December 30, 2022, 08:25:59 AM
Quote from: glennd3 on December 29, 2022, 09:18:23 AM
You may want to check these. I have not used them but the guys in my British car club like them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wh5gM8GM70

Hate to sound negative, but the last place I would take suggestions from on automotive electrics is from an
organization involving British cars. :(
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 30, 2022, 03:13:32 PM
Noah & Guys : To end the confusion, I do NOT use butt connectors- period!! I join 2 wire as mentioned above!!

I first crimp to a lug, ring or fork connector and then solder the exposed end.  If the lug is closed, I drill a small hole near the closed end, heat the lug and let the solder flow into the hole. 

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Noah on December 30, 2022, 03:23:21 PM
Ron—so how do you put two wire together? Always use a terminal strip and rings or forks?
Title: Re: Instrument panel rewire
Post by: Ron Hill on December 30, 2022, 03:32:12 PM
Noah : If it just so happens that both ends have a ring connector (and I'm in a hurry) I've put them together with a small nut&bolt; then slid a piece of large heat shrink or tape over the connection to protect it!!

I purchased a butane soldering iron that is very handy, especially when you are up the mast!!

a thought