This week's mystery picture

[Dave Spencer]

The aft cabin bilge is significantly higher than the main bilge. I don't see much value in putting a second pump there. Drips from the shaft seal will either migrate to the main bilge or overflow into the engine bilge area; neither of which would be mitigated by a bilge pump in the aft cabin. Some people have s small bilge pump in the main bilge to deal with nuisance leaks and then a larger pump above the smaller one to deal with significant water intrusion. I haven't done this but I think some on the forum might have.

[Noah]

Aft cabin? Not a good location for bilge pump. Look at Jon's install and others.

[Jon W]

Agree with you Ken there is definitely more than one way to address an issue.

Sophie
Christian Williams is his name. I read the book and have watched his YouTube video several times. It's funny and informative, he has a distinct communication style. He sold his Ericson 32 and bought and refit an Ericson 38 and either just left or is about to leave singlehanded for Hawaii again.

I recently upgraded my bilge pump system. I now have a Rule 1500 with a new smooth bore 1 1/8" hose as primary, and a hope to never use Rule 3700 with a new smooth bore 1 1/2" hose as a secondary. Also new anti siphon, and breakers. I did not put one in the aft cabin since it drains into the bilge. I thought about adding a pump under the v-berth since there's no drain to the bilge but didn't at this time.

I put a write up of my project about adding a second bilge pump to a MK 1 in the Tech Wiki. I think it's under the "Leaks" section then "Bilge". If you can't find it let me know and I'll get the right trail.

[Ron Hill]

Sophie : A 2nd bilge pump in the aft cabin would be a waste!!
I'd install it in the bilge just aft of the mast (guessing that your present pump is in the second aft bilge compartment)

I'd also use a 1" hose from the second pump and change out the thru hull in the transom to a 1" also.

A few thoughts

[anon]

Great stuff as always. Thank you.
(And I did say "surveyor"  . He was not very good).
I will post a picture of my existing bilge pump set up if I may and also measure the diameter of that spare hose. Not that making it bigger would be a big deal.
And is the Rule 3700 the way to go?

[KWKloeber]

 Oh you may be treading on thin ice.
"which brand pump" is nearly like asking "what brand battery?" or "wax or poliglo?" 

[Jon W]

I chose Rule pumps and float switches which were consistently rated highly based on the reading I did. There are other choices for pump and float switch brand as well as type of pump. As Ken said there isn't one right answer.

Keep in mind the pump and switch are only part of the story. Do you have an adequate electrical system to run the pumps when you need them long enough for you to have a chance to stop the leak?

[anon]

@Jon - in the first instance I would be happy having the second pump while at the dock. My aim is to install solar panels and a bank of batteries next year. I do not expect to be too far from home port before then but you make a good point. I will attempt to calculate the run time of the pump purely on my current batteries. Which brings me to an interesting question. Lets say I totally deplete my batteries using the bilge pumps. Or maybe they fail. I am thinking that a separate battery to start the engine would be a good idea.
et al - has somebody done a bilge pump comparison?

[Ron Hill]

Sophie : Where the run time is important is if you have a float switch that is wired directly to a battery/bank.
So that the bilge pump can run with the main battery switch OFF.

I wired mine into 2 batteries that are wired in parallel so there is a total of 210 Amp Hrs (fully charged)

A thought

[Stu Jackson]

>>>>>>>
1.  My aim is to install solar panels and a bank of batteries next year. I do not expect to be too far from home port before then but you make a good point.

2.  I will attempt to calculate the run time of the pump purely on my current batteries.

3.  Which brings me to an interesting question. Lets say I totally deplete my batteries using the bilge pumps. Or maybe they fail. I am thinking that a separate battery to start the engine would be a good idea.

4.  et al - has somebody done a bilge pump comparison?

1.  Good idea.  You will most likely have questions about size, types and controllers.  Much information here, but a specific question or two would go a long way to help you when the time comes.  Batteries: hands down --- four golf carts in the basic box, your choice of location for the reserve bank.  The tech wiki has tons of information.  I'm sure you'll get there.   

2.  Don't bother.  Really.   Close ALL of your seacocks when you ain't there.  Best thing to get into a habit doing.  Then your boat will only sink if your stuffing box or knotmeter lets go.  Hasn't happened to anyone who has frequented this forum in the past 17 years!    And, IIRC, not reported since the tech notes started in 1987!  30 years.  So far so good -- knock on wood and my head! 

3.  Read the Electrical System 101 Topic, covers this in excruciating detail.    Actually  the first handful of topics cover the basics of sizing, wiring and switching options.  There are very good electrical system options in the tech wiki, too.

4.  Maybe not here, but Practical Sailor probably did.  I gave up on them when they started repeating themselves about a decade or two ago.  Others like them still.  But really, if you follow #2, you have two choices:  one or two pumps, each with their OWN outlets, no check valves, even if the first one goes through the manual pump.  For 99% of C34 coastal sailors, one is fine.  I simply have NOT heard of a catastrophic situation with a C34 since I became active with this association in 1999.  If, however, you are planning on venturing further afield, then, by all means, go for more extensive systems.  Your boat, your choice.    Manufacturers of pumps?  May want to spend some time on Maine Sail's website.  Look at the sticky on the Main Message Board, lots of good stuff there.

Sophie, I admire you for asking the way you do.  Altogether too many folks do something, then ask what went wrong, when if they'd asked first they could have avoided a lot of paiin, suffering and grief, both financial, physical and lost sailing time.

We're here to help.  Some of us are opinionated, often with differing views.  Gee, just like a yacht club without the drunks!

[Ron Hill]

Sophie & Guys : Instead of a second bilge pump here's what I did to take care of an emergency to help my   Rule 2000 electric bilge pump keep up:

I ran a 5/8" hose from the main bilge under the flooring and it came out in the compartment under the head sink.  If I had a situation where the electric bilge pump couldn't keep up with the incoming water - I'd disconnect the raw water engine hose from the (closed) thru hull and connect it to the 5/8" other hose from the bulge . 
That way the engine became another bilge pump!!! v

A thought 

[Jon W]

My 2 cents -

A second electric bilge pump of a larger capacity than your primary is a sound method of providing redundancy to the bilge system. Search the internet and other forums for yourself.

The engine raw water pump is a great source as a third option in what I would think of as a catastrophic situation. To have it up and running quickly I would install a diverter valve after the thru hull but before the raw water strainer. Have a piece of hose easily retreivable that will reach from the diverter valve into the area underneath the v-berth. This ensures you can get to anywhere the water is not just the bilge. When needed, install and clamp the hose to the diverter valve and put the other end where the water ingress is. Then slowly switch the valve from thru hull suction to internal suction. This would allow you to change from the normal thru hull raw water intake, to the water leaked into the boat without shutting the engine off and changing hoses then turning the engine back on all while in a state of extreme concern.

[KWKloeber]

All well and good as a quick option to use the seawater pump, but if there's anything permanent -- it must be "marine grade" and properly installed,  i.e., you don't want to be using PVC fittings and valves bought at a big box.

Also think about how much water is exhausted out (understand that's not easy for your 34-ers to see) and that's all your sea water pump is going to "bilge pump."  Not a lot, but better than nothing in an emergency.

Another option that I have, is my 12v Teel brand impeller pump (Little Giant pony pump), I set up w/a quick 12v plug in, switched, on a long cable.  It's my engine oil and transmission fluid emptying pump, wash down pump, emergency fuel lift pump, pink stuff pump, tank emptying pump, fuel transfer pump, emergency bilge pump, whatever else I need pump,  etc

kk

[anon]

Thanks again for some amazing input. Going back to the picture I first posted I now realize that I was being somewhat lazy as far as questions about the hoses went. I am glad I posted it though because I got some good advice on upgrading the installations.
First the good news. The backing plate for the swim ladder may be cracked but the hull is fine.
The white corrugated tubing is the manual bilge hose. Apart from the engine exhaust there are two cockpit drain hoses, the current electric bilge pump hose and a "spare" hose that I will use as is or upgrade for a secondary bilge pump.
I capture the text from the replies that I get and I am making a little projects folder. (Not so little actually!).
I am in my probationary 60 days at the yacht club and mentioned bilge pumps. One interesting response was that I consider a 110V bilge pump using the shore power. The argument is that bilge pump float switches have been known to stick and cycle on and off until the batteries drain. But then of course I gratefully read that from you guys my worst fears are probably just that.
I took three pictures of the bilge yesterday. I am not at all happy that the wires are stuck to the top of the pump with a little piece of tape and that they are spliced together with electricians tape. I would be interested to know best practice for the wiring. For the existing pump and a second pump. I would like to see pictures of a well installed set up.
As far as my future intentions go, I want to ready my boat for a journey from Northern California to Costa Rica and back again. That is my goal. Probably 2019. I have a lot to learn about sailing and my boat. I have a lot of confidence with this forum steering the technical aspects.

[Jon W]

Don't know if this is considered  "a well installed set up", but is what I did on my 1987 and works well. Not sure what year boat you have since it's not in your signature.

2 photos attached.

The smaller pump and float switch low in the bilge is a Rule 1500 with a 1 1/8" hose. The larger pump mounted higher in the same compartment is a Rule 3700. The float switch for the Rule 3700 is mounted in the next bilge compartment just aft of the mast due to lack of room. Unable to put the pump there because there isn't enough room between the subfloor and the lateral stringer to fit the 1 1/2" hose.

Use proper sized tinned boat wire with heat shrink connectors and heat shrink tubing over any butt splices. Use a good wire crimper. Keep the wires up high as possible, secured and out of the way to be able to remove the pumps without major dissassembly.