Potential C34 owner

[Bob S]

Hi All,
What a tremendous asset you guys are! I currently own a C30 that I love but the admiral is getting claustrophobic in her V birth. I have done many upgrades to her and know her inside out. So now I'm looking to move up. It's all about availability and proximity. There is a nice 34 about an hour from me I am going to look at. It's a 2005 and has very little electronics on her. Pretty much the stock boat but does have a mast furler and coils spring mattresses.

Question:
The current owner bought her in July and is now selling her for lack of use? The survey he had done shows
1 Monitor the cutless bearing starting to show signs of wear
2 Re Bed the mast step at the coach roof - High moisture readings in that area
3 Fill the propane system and check the regulator - Gage reads 60 lbs and system is empty
4 Install a protective cover on back of battery switches - exposed connections
5 Install a Carbon Monoxide detector
6 Install a Propane Fume Detector

The only one I am concerned about is #2 High moisture. I don't want to be re-coring the deck around the mast step.

The broker said It is a deck-stepped mast with a compression post. The surveyor's only recommendation was to re-bed the mast step during the upcoming off-season. He was not particularly concerned. It is likely that the mast has never been de-stepped. The boat was yard-maintained and docked / stored at the same marina since new (i.e. they probably never took down the mast). So it's time to re-bed the step anyway.

I would appreciate any comments
Thank you!

[KWKloeber]

Bob,  (Ken here)  In some of the prior links I sent it may have touched on issues .. also carefully read the "101" and "critical upgrades" topics on the forum main page.  They are invaluable and will tell you more than a surveyor ever will.  Unless a surveyor has owned/sailed/fixed a particular boat (manufacturer/model/year) s/he is clueless as to the myriad of potential issues.  Surveyors come in all flavors -- some of them very distasteful as to the product they produce, beyond what they had "sighted aboard" (their term for "I have no liability whatsoever.")  ITSO, a well-informed owner (or a friend) with high mechanical ability can oftentimes do a better "survey" than someone with a certificate.  There are exceptions, of course.

Case in point - when I bought the 9-year old '84 C30, my well-known surveyor was obviously clueless about a water leak from a minor, 1-foot-long crack in the keel fairing ("Re-torque the keel bolts," he noted.) 
Well we C30-ers know better, 'eh?  So did I after two years later dropping, fixing, rebedding, refairing, and repainting the 5,000-lb hunk of lead.

Beware of "the only" recommendation - expect there's damage and "the only" question is "how extensive?"  IMHO a surveyor working for a buyer should have used more diligence trying to isolate the damage -- more soundings, more moisture readings -- to determine how far it goes. 

Case in point - on a J/120 the surveyor for buyer reported 'high moisture" and to simply rebed a line clutch.  This spring I tore out the liner below, cutting into the under deck and rebuilding about a square foot of the core.  Luckily there was a removable liner under it to hide the repair.  The PO had found the damage and pumped the core full of silicone caulk to hide the damage and "prevent" further intrusion, rather than remove and fix it.  The surveyor could have determined the severity and extent of the rotted core with more soundings -- I knew as as soon as I tapped the deck!!

And when you specifically know about an issue, they will avoid making any "firm" statement that could impart any liability.

Case in point - I couple years ago one of my brokerings was a CS-36 with an obvious dorade leak right above the saloon/head bulkhead. I hired a surveyor to investigate the damage and the potential for damage to the bulkhead plywood and the potential it needed to be replaced.  This was to "pre-address" the issue with potential buyers.  I fully explained the issue and why we're doing the survey.   His only note was "sighted water damage to teak plywood."  WHAT?!?  I paid for that?!?!  After taking him to task, he said he couldn't evaluate the damage -- he's not a marine carpenter or knowledgeable as to how CS constructed the bulkhead.  No crap -- why didn't he say that when he looked at the boat and I and I explained that's what I wanted addressed?  I could have done 200% more myself with a meter and a hammer to determine the damage -- (turned out there was none but cosmetic.)

Just be cautious....  take notes and make a list of all the issues that might apply to her before your next visit, and look for/ask about those.  Caveat emptor, don't rely on a survey (ITSO.)

-kk

[Bob S]

Thanks Ken,

I read the survey given to me by the broker and thought it was a bit lame compared to the one I got on my boat. Mine included pictures and was about 20 pages. What concerned me is the new owner is selling her only after less than two months of ownership.

I have been through most of the critical updates on my 30 which might be up for sale soon. Stu had worked with me back in 2007 and was much help in giving me an understanding. RC/ Maine Sail has been another incredible asset along with SBO! Sailingdog, Dan, was too but has been missing since he lost his boat to a fire. You can't say enough about our own group (if it weren't so difficult to navigate). I believe I know what to look for and own a moisture meter which I will take with me when I look at her. Stu sent me a link to a conversation with a schematic taken from the C32 which has the same deck step I believe. I was just curious if anyone else has had an issue with moisture around the deck step.

The good news boats seem to be selling quicker.

[KWKloeber]

Bob,

I would be surprised if the step issue is any (much?) different than "we" experience (ie, Ed R's repair, etc.)  On one hand it may simply boil down to how the mast cables were run thru the deck on the 2005 (eg, a pvc chimney installed or not.)  Maybe someone here knows that -- I would also encourage you talk to Gerry D.

Pick up a phenolic hammer also, it's not an end-all, just another tool

interesting reading...
http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/features/dealers/other-dealers/lawsuit-could-change-brokers-world
http://pantaenius.com/en/news-events/news/newsartikel/news/what-a-thermographer-can-do-for-you.html

I would ask the broker "what else specifically do you know about why PO is seller her?"  As a real estate broker, they are required to disclose what they know.  Sounds like pending divorce to me LOL!

-kk

[mark_53]

Thanks Ken,

I read the survey given to me by the broker and thought it was a bit lame compared to the one I got on my boat. Mine included pictures and was about 20 pages.

Well you get what you pay for. Maybe consider using your own surveyor?

[Bob S]

Mark,
I would get my own survey if or when I decide to move forward. I was just reading off the previous owners survey done 6 weeks ago. The second owner bought her in July and now has her for sale. We are looking at her this evening. Hope the admiral likes it!

Anyone well versed in using a moisture meter. I have a CT33 I was going to bring with me but it has been raining all day. I don't do this for a living and bought it for my own boat to trace any potential leaks. I know you can't use them when the fiberglass is wet but can you get any kind of reading that might make sense from inside the cabin?