Electrical Panel - Engine

[Ron Hill]

Bill : The way your 1988 should be wired is:

There is a red #10 or #12 wire coming from the stud on the starter soleniod that powers the key swich on the engine panel.  That stud is the common positive getting its power from the Perko (1/2/All) switch on the main electrical panel.

If you turn the key switch OFF while the engine is running and the VR is powered from that key switch then the alternator is putting out "0" and there is NO side load on the engine - as the a;ternator is just spinning.
Of course there is no reading of any of the gages on the engine panel, as they all get their power from the key switch being ON!!    A thought

[Ron Hill]

Bill : I surly hope that "that small black box" behind the engine insturment panel is a replacement connector for the "WIRING HARNESS UPGRADE" ?!!?

If your AO is going directly to the batteries, you don't need the wire from the AO to the starter soleniod. 

Another few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

I actually don't know.    Years ago I had photographed the wiring behind my panel, in the port locker, in the lazarette and behind the panel.  It is one of the few mysteries left to me to admit to.  

But as I recall, when I turn the 1-2-B switch on, the cockpit panel gets power.  It could well be that the panel itself is only energized by the ignition switch, but in order for that to happen, there HAS TO BE power going from the switch to the panel.

Now, from a completely "let's play detective" approach, it can come physically two ways:  1)  switch to cockpit panel from behind the nav station electrical panel up above the small black sliding doors above the nav station, over the head cabinet through the port locker to the panel, or 2) via the power wire from the C post of the switch to the starter and then through the wiring harness to the panel.  I say two ways, 'cuz i just haven't seen any other wires that could "qualify" as being from the switch to the panel.  I didn't recall seeing any in the port locker when we redid our exhaust hose recently, however, I wasn't looking for it.

Bill,

I traced the wiring on my boat this afternoon.

There IS a positive wire from the electrical panel up under the head through the port locker back to the cockpit panel.

Here's how it works:  The C post of the switch connects to the distribution (nav station) electrical panel.  There is NO wire from the C post of the switch back to the cockpit panel.  However, there IS a power wire from the C post to the distribution panel (DP) AND from the MAIN POSITIVE BUS BAR of the distribution panel, that's where the wire goes to the cockpit panel.

So, when you turn the switch on, power goes from the C post to the DP, the main bus bar back to the cockpit panel.  It is unfused.  

On my boat, they also added a wire to power the autopilot.

Just look at the panel, it'll be pretty evident.  It may well be that this wire is loose at your panel if everything else works and you have no power to the panel when everything else is on.  Or at the panel end.

Bill : The way your 1988 should be wired is:

There is a red #10 or #12 wire coming from the stud on the starter solenoid that powers the key switch on the engine panel.  That stud is the common positive getting its power from the (1/2/All) switch on the main electrical panel.

That wire provides power TO the starter solenoid from the ignition switch, it is not the power to the key switch.  The key switch powers it, it doesn't power the key switch.

Clouseu, out.  

[Bill Stephenson]

The problem is the engine panel gauges not working.  I have no problems with altenator output. 

Over the weekend I learned that I did not remove the short wire from the alternator to the starter solenoid last year when I upgraded the house bank, added a starting battery and the echo charger, etc.  I wondered why I was getting voltage out of the wire from the engine starter solenoid to the starter button.  Should I definitely remove this wire? 

The source of power at the panel is the wire from the starter solenoid and the wire from the altenator. 

Also, I learned that the little black box is a solid state relay and it is related to the sound alarm.  There appears to be two sides to the relay.  One side has six wires (oil pressure, two to the sound alarm, start button, and two to the ground side of the temperature guage).  The other side has four wires that either dead end or connect to each other.  I will assume that this device is wired correctly to do what ever it is designed to do.

I now have drawings of all the wiring at the engine and the panel.  I plan to go ahead with the wiring harness and connector upgrade in the near future.  And if I can't find the solution to current problem before that, hopefully the upgrade will solve it. 

Bill

[Ron Hill]

Bill : Look at your C34 owners manual on page 4.2.2, because major wiring changes occured in the 1988 C34 production year - caused by ABYCA recommendations/regulations.  

A thought

[Stu Jackson]

Should I definitely remove this wire?

Yes.

Why?

OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.msg30101.html#msg30101

[Clay Greene]

Only remove the wire from the alternator output to the starter solenoid if you have run a separate red wire (most likely 2 AWG given the distance involved) from the alternator output to either the C post of the 1-2-C switch or (preferably) to the house battery bank.  You did not mention this as part of your upgrade process and it is something you would remember doing. 

The power from the batteries runs through the C post (getting power from the 1 and 2 posts) through the starter solenoid and up to the engine panel at the key switch.  You indicate you have power at the engine panel and at all of the gauges.  It is unlikely that you would have problem with each of the sender wires at once, although I suppose anything is possible with the old harness connections.  I believe that the gauges do share a common ground connection, however. Did you check that? 

For what it is worth, the engine panel diagram that Stu attached does show a 10 amp circuit breaker between the key switch and the gauges.  I know for a fact that we do not have one on our 1989 boat so I don't put a lot of faith in that diagram.  Even if there was such a circuit breaker, it would not explain your problem because you have power at the gauges. 

We took out our old wiring harness and were horrified at what we found.  I really wished I had taken some pictures.  The connections were melted, wires were ready to fall apart, etc.  I definitely agree it was a fire hazard.  We wired directly from the engine to the engine panel rather than use the termstrips. 

[Stu Jackson]

Only remove the wire from the alternator output to the starter solenoid if you have run a separate red wire (most likely 2 AWG given the distance involved) from the alternator output to either the C post of the 1-2-C switch or (preferably) to the house battery bank.  You did not mention this as part of your upgrade process and it is something you would remember doing. 

Only reason I said that was 'cuz he said he'd done the Jim Moe upgrade "but without the alternator upgrade."  I read that as he'd run the new AO to the house bank.

If he hasn't, you're right.

[Ron Hill]

Clay : I like your testomony, but would you believe that there are still C30s, C34s &C36s that have not done the Wiring Harness Upgrade.  It is a FIRE hazzard!!! 

Sorry for any misspelled words because spell check no longer functions !!  a few thoughts

[Bill Stephenson]

Hi Guys,
Here's an update on the non-working engine gauges (tach, temp, and fuel).  Last week I changed out the wiring harness and added the new term strips.  While the old connections did not appear to be in bad shape (fresh water boat), both the tach and the temp gauges started working after the harness upgrade.  So, it was definitely the right thing to do for the fire hazzard and the engine gauges. 

The fuel gauge itself checks out OK with the resistence test.  So, I think the problem is with the transmitter.  I'll be working on that soon.  Meanwhile I'll keep my fuel tank topped off. 

I did remove the #10 orange line from the alternator to the ignition as recommended in the upgrade. 

Everything seems to be working fine but I have one question.  After starting the engine and with the ignition on, I still have a continuous clicking sound that is similar to the glow plug sound only not quiet as loud.  This noise was there before the harness upgrade.  Is this normal?

Remember that last year I installed a dedicated starting battery and the power from it goes directly to the starter solenoid.  I also installed an echo charger that reaches the starting battery through a wire from the number 2 post on the 1,2,C switch to the starter solenoid.   

Also, there was discussion earlier on the need for the short orange wire between the alternator and the starting solenoid.  So far, I have not removed this wire.  But I did run a #6 wire from the alternator to the house bank for charging.  So, it does make sense to me to remove the short orange wire as I want the alternator to charge the house bank first and then charge the starting battery through the echo charger. 

That's all for now and thanks for all of your previous input,

Bill

[Stu Jackson]

1.   ...but I have one question.  After starting the engine and with the ignition on, I still have a continuous clicking sound that is similar to the glow plug sound only not quiet as loud.  This noise was there before the harness upgrade.  Is this normal?

2.   Also, there was discussion earlier on the need for the short orange wire between the alternator and the starting solenoid.  So far, I have not removed this wire.  But I did run a #6 wire from the alternator to the house bank for charging.  So, it does make sense to me to remove the short orange wire as I want the alternator to charge the house bank first and then charge the starting battery through the echo charger

Bill,

Good work and thanks for the update.

1.  Could it be your fuel pump?  It should be ticking.

2.  See Reply #20 above.  Remove the orange wire.  The link explained why. 

[Ron Hill]

Bill : Like Stu said "it could be the fuel pump ticking".  If it ticks with only the key switch ON - check the fuel pump under the gally sink (feel it) and I'm sure that is the ticking noise.

I'd run at least a #4 wire for the starting battery and also think about a #6 wire ground to accompany the positive wires from the ALTERNATOR (DIRECT) TO THE BATTERYS.

Also, Remove the short wire from the alternator to the starter sol.- it's not needed

[Clay Greene]

It depends on how you route the wire back from the alternator to the battery compartment, but 2 awg was the right choice for us based on the Blue Sea Systems wire size guide.

[Clay Greene]

Here is a link to the wire guide:

http://bluesea.com/files/resources/reference/20010_Rev.003-web.pdf

[Stu Jackson]

No need to run an additional ground back to the battery negative.  Just ground it to the engine, it's right there!